VPS Avenger 2.4 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

[Trancit]

I don´t see using samples in such case as problematic...
Samples simplifies everything if the sound needs a lot of processing to sound like this... so this saves in many cases for sure a lot of additional oscillators and FX = a lot of processing power and a better oversight...

What I do find problematic are presets I stumbled upon in Expansions like Atmospherica (2) or Melancholica (1 + 2) which use samples having a chord progression baked in...
How do you change the baked in chord progression inside a sample for own use??

[Caine123]

I don´t see using samples in such case as problematic...
Samples simplifies everything if the sound needs a lot of processing to sound like this... so this saves in many cases for sure a lot of additional oscillators and FX = a lot of processing power and a better oversight...

What I do find problematic are presets I stumbled upon in Expansions like Atmospherica (2) or Melancholica (1 + 2) which use samples having a chord progression baked in...
How do you change the baked in chord progression inside a sample for own use??

for me a synth should show its synthcapabilities if possible instead of being a sample player. as i said it is not problematic but I wondered myself why a Hoover sound needs a sample and why not use 1-2 Synth OSCs?

[msvs]

its all about authenticity. Hoover sounds best, being recreated on an AlphaJuno2, where it originated. This unit had a special way of doing PWM. And the chorus was unique. Furthermore, Samples give you the possibitliy to quickly LAYER finished sounds onto your own sound and process it further with your own sound design. It also has some unique sounding synthsis like the "shift" dial which only works on samples. It also saves CPU performance, of course. So you see only because you are curious how sounds are made (which I can understand), doesnt neccessarily make it a better choice for producers NOT to rely on good multisamples

[ffx]

I would also prefer an "Alpha Juno 2" unison mode then in the synth engine instead samples... For me, Avenger primarily is about being able to use a capable synth, not using samples. That said, this new soundpack sounds outstandingly nice, no question about that.

[Caine123]

its all about authenticity. Hoover sounds best, being recreated on an AlphaJuno2, where it originated. This unit had a special way of doing PWM. And the chorus was unique. Furthermore, Samples give you the possibitliy to quickly LAYER finished sounds onto your own sound and process it further with your own sound design. It also has some unique sounding synthsis like the "shift" dial which only works on samples. It also saves CPU performance, of course. So you see only because you are curious how sounds are made (which I can understand), doesnt neccessarily make it a better choice for producers NOT to rely on good multisamples

thanks a lot Manuel, now I'm understanding this better so I thought better to ask and learn instead of making wrong assumptions

oh btw, a liquid DNB pack would be nice

[Trancit]

its all about authenticity. Hoover sounds best, being recreated on an AlphaJuno2, where it originated. This unit had a special way of doing PWM. And the chorus was unique. Furthermore, Samples give you the possibitliy to quickly LAYER finished sounds onto your own sound and process it further with your own sound design. It also has some unique sounding synthsis like the "shift" dial which only works on samples. It also saves CPU performance, of course. So you see only because you are curious how sounds are made (which I can understand), doesnt neccessarily make it a better choice for producers NOT to rely on good multisamples

Agreed, but I want to raise my previous question again in a different way please:

How would you use samples like i.e. "Anatonia Pad" from Melancholia 2 with baked in chords and progression if you want to change the premade progression to your own?

I mean apart from an advice like "use a different sample"...

Wouldn´t it be better to stay away from premade chords and chord progression inside of the samples and do them in Avenger that the user can change it more easy?

[Teksonik]

side question, why has Avenger so many presets with samples? kinda disappointed why the synth engines arent used or is it not possible to do specific leads etc with it? e.g. also this pack has even for leads samples!.........samples are mostly not helpful.

Well there's another post that needs push back......

What makes you think you can't do lead sounds with samples?

You know you can layer sample Oscs with VA Oscs right? That works really well when you take a sample of a synth like let's say an Oberheim or Moog then layer it with the VA capabilities of Avenger. It yields a depth and range that any VA Osc alone can't fully recreate. I even sample some of my VSTi synths and then use those samples in other synths like Avenger. The combination of different "flavors" of synths can make for more detailed and expansive sounds.

Sample based synthesis is incredibly powerful and gives us Oscs that aren't limited to the dusty old Saw, Square, Pulse, Triangle, and Sine waves of the past. Anything you can hear can be sampled so samples give us a theoretically infinite source of sounds to sculpt.

The main reason I buy expansion packs for Avenger is to get the sample content to use in my own patches and yes that includes lead sounds. It's because of the multi-sample capability that Avenger is one of my top three synths (the other two can also import samples). Lord knows today we have a million ways to run a saw wave through a filter, a technology that has existed since the 1960's.

So VPS, please keep the samples coming as there are those of us who do understand their purpose and do appreciate their power.

[msvs]

its all about authenticity. Hoover sounds best, being recreated on an AlphaJuno2, where it originated. This unit had a special way of doing PWM. And the chorus was unique. Furthermore, Samples give you the possibitliy to quickly LAYER finished sounds onto your own sound and process it further with your own sound design. It also has some unique sounding synthsis like the "shift" dial which only works on samples. It also saves CPU performance, of course. So you see only because you are curious how sounds are made (which I can understand), doesnt neccessarily make it a better choice for producers NOT to rely on good multisamples

Agreed, but I want to raise my previous question again in a different way please:

How would you use samples like i.e. "Anatonia Pad" from Melancholia 2 with baked in chords and progression if you want to change the premade progression to your own?

I mean apart from an advice like "use a different sample"...

Wouldn´t it be better to stay away from premade chords and chord progression inside of the samples and do them in Avenger that the user can change it more easy?

well, thats something different again... we talked about Multisamples - these are playable. What you now mean is a sample loop, used in Avengers' granular engine. There are a handful of XPs, which consists purely of loops (Atmospherica 1/2, Melancholia, and partially Dystopia and Cinematic Loops). These are something else: a beatiful loop (yes often with chord changes) where you can do impossible things like traveling though time in any tempo, forwards and backwards, so "spray/cloud" like granular stuff etc. If you do not enjoy loops, stay away from the above mentioned XPs

And there is another type of Samples: Multiloops... these are mainly used for the Guitar XPs and they are live played loops, but follow your own pressed chords, and in any tempo.

[Trancit]

well, thats something different again... we talked about Multisamples - these are playable. What you now mean is a sample loop, used in Avengers' granular engine. There are a handful of XPs, which consists purely of loops (Atmospherica 1/2, Melancholia, and partially Dystopia and Cinematic Loops). These are something else: a beatiful loop (yes often with chord changes) where you can do impossible things like traveling though time in any tempo, forwards and backwards, so "spray/cloud" like granular stuff etc. If you do not enjoy loops, stay away from the above mentioned XPs

...

Thx, for taking the time...and merry Christmas!

In this case as there is no demo apart from audio examples (even Bartek´s videos are the same kind) shouldn´t there be a bit of more info what´s in there??

How shall the user know before buying in which expansions are many loops of that limited kind and in which not?

[Lbdunequest]

well, thats something different again... we talked about Multisamples - these are playable. What you now mean is a sample loop, used in Avengers' granular engine. There are a handful of XPs, which consists purely of loops (Atmospherica 1/2, Melancholia, and partially Dystopia and Cinematic Loops). These are something else: a beatiful loop (yes often with chord changes) where you can do impossible things like traveling though time in any tempo, forwards and backwards, so "spray/cloud" like granular stuff etc. If you do not enjoy loops, stay away from the above mentioned XPs

...

Thx, for taking the time...and merry Christmas!

In this case as there is no demo apart from audio examples (even Bartek´s videos are the same kind) shouldn´t there be a bit of more info what´s in there??

How shall the user know before buying in which expansions are many loops of that limited kind and in which not?

Id love to see VPS that expansions would have detailed info like ReFX nexus has. It helped me to decide if expansion is fit for song writing or not.

I have bought Atmospherica vol 2 and feeling dissapointed as it contains mainly loops and pads that already has chord progression in it which makes it unusable as a whole for song writing. If i had known this information prior buying i wouldve not bought it.

[noiseboyuk]

Id love to see VPS that expansions would have detailed info like ReFX nexus has. It helped me to decide if expansion is fit for song writing or not.

I have bought Atmospherica vol 2 and feeling dissapointed as it contains mainly loops and pads that already has chord progression in it which makes it unusable as a whole for song writing. If i had known this information prior buying i wouldve not bought it.

I think this is a fair comment, this stuff isn't obvious. It's exacerbated by the fact that these not-so-playable XPs are not EDM and will (I'd imagine) attract few one-press-preset fans. You hear the demos and make an assumption that this is rich sound design that you can use at will.

[msvs]

I agree that it is hard to tell exactly, since the borders are fluent. Its not even that these loop presets can have own categories. An SQ or an AR can have chord progression - or not. Or can have granular samples inside - or not. Granular files with chords baked in or granular samples with playable content... Category AT (atmosphere) can be granular or other normal synthesis forms. Its not automatically recognizable in a chart - even what refx does is just the category and dont tell you anything about having chord progressions in presets or not.

But a strong indicator is, when there are very much granular samples and little multisamples


I hope this helps for future selections
Merry xmas to all, too

[Caine123]

merry xmas! am curious what 2026 will bring to Avenger !

[Bombunbam]

Merry xmas to all, too

Hi Manuel, first of all, happy holidays and a Merry Christmas! I wanted to ask you when the Avenger Acid 303 expansion is coming out?

And will you ever make collections of all your synth multisamples? Because a while back you made an expansion for Avenger called "String Machines," which I read contained 654 new multisamples! Because between multisamples and wavetables, etc., you can create so many new sounds.

So I'm wondering if you'll ever make collections for people who really want to create their own sounds, and therefore only need wavetables and multisamples. Also, because you have an endless collection of hardware synths that would be the envy of any music store .

Another important thing: I don't know if it's just me, but when I want to make a multisample, that is, take various notes from a synth and convert them into Avenger, it feels like quality is lost. But everything is converted with an RME UCX 2 and a very powerful PC. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, because all the multisamples you created are very high quality, and if I import them, not only are they always lower than the source, but they also sound worse than the sample audio once imported. Is there something I'm doing wrong with the import, or do I need to set something in Avenger to maintain the same quality? Or do I need to import them in some different way?

Thank you very much.

[msvs]

Its coming out in March!
Here is a preview of the demo for you: https://on.soundcloud.com/uv656aNW5ejCCJKReb

to your question: I have no idea what you are doing wrong, Avenger reads 44.1kzh wav, maybe you are using the wrong rate? Normally its what you feed in, its coming out that way. There are no special processes.