Quick Patch Design Questions?

[pricer]

Is there any way of producing filter key-follow?

Is it possible to fake PWM in patches - for example the Roland Super JX-10 is capable of producing lush string ensemble patchs without any pulse-width modulation architecture.

Are there any plans to integrate full PWM, sync and ring mod architecture into the SS2 engine?

[Kim Lajoie]

Is there any way of producing filter key-follow?

Not directly in SS2, but depending on your host you might be able to simulate a sort of monophonic key-follow. You'd have to automatically create a CC event each time a note is created, and set the value of the CC to the note number (or something directly proportional). Then just assign that CC to the filter (or any!) parameter in SS2.

I'm using Cubase SX, and I can do this easily using the Logical Editor. If you're also using SX (any version), I can give you detailed instructions on how to set it up.

Is it possible to fake PWM in patches - for example the Roland Super JX-10 is capable of producing lush string ensemble patchs without any pulse-width modulation architecture.

Theoretically, it's possible to fake PWM using two saw waves with opposite polarity. Unfortunately, I haven't found a suitable pair of instruments in SS2 (yet), nor have I found a way to flip the polarity of a waveform within SS2.

However, you can get a similar effect by using the chorus effect, followed by lofi (to shrink the stereo width if you want). The phaser effect with subtle settings can be useful too.

Alternatively, there might be some instruments that have some PWM at the sample level. I think I might have come across some, but I can't remember where they were or what they were called.

Are there any plans to integrate full PWM, sync and ring mod architecture into the SS2 engine?

Ring mod is available as an effect, it's called "AM Modulation", and it's pretty full on. Sometimes it's possible to "tune" the mod frequency to notes being played, which can have a cool effect.

Synth-style PWM and sync are unfortunately impossible at this stage, because SS2 is fundamentally a sample-based instrument. Some samples have PWM or sync, but it's not (very) controllable.

However, because SS2 is a sample-based instrument, there are other possibilities that traditional analogue synths can't even dream of. Things like massive polyphony, layers combining different types of sounds, STRETCH, PS/TS (kind of granular synthesis), midi-controllable effects processing, etc. You can even load up all 16 channels with sine waves and do additive synthesis with as much polyphony as your CPU can handle!

Forever,




Kim.

[Squids]

Some good answers (impressive Jeez). There are some things along those lines in a certain way that are planned but I can't talk too much about future updates when the product has just come out. There are some very cool unconventional methods to get some of the things you are asking for and more. As usual, I have a very nice surprise for all of our loyal Sonik Synth 2 users in the works. If you like the synth aspects of the product then you will love this. No news yet though (Squids teasing).

[pricer]

How exactly do the sync patches work in SS2, as presumably they would be sync'd to the original synth LFO and not the LFO of SS2. Would there be any way of extracting trigger points from the synth waves to control the sync?

Thanks Jeez for all the help, i may take u up on that 16 channel sine wave challenge, it would interesting what DX/Eno-esque sounds i come up with, in fact it would be interesting what Eno could do with SS2:

Ambient 5: Day of Radiant Squids

[pricer]

13 patches i created last night (hence my sudden interest in sync and PWM ) Obviously, i'm not the greatest patch designer ever, so some hints and tips on how to tighten some of the sounds would be great - especially kick and tom drum sounds, i couldn't get to sound any good at all.

Well here we go:
http://www.freewebs.com/spinkitten/PricerCombi.zip
or
http://www.freewebs.com/spinkitten/synth.htm

12 Dreams of the Arp - Probably not the best Jarre pad in the world!
Arp Drumkit - While still a work in progress (lacking Cymbals etc), I think this is pretty cool.
Arp String Machine - With extra lush chorus.
Graindust - SS2 makes IDM easy.
MegaMassiveMini - Just a big ol' Moog patch.
Moog Superwave - LFO's have been adjusted to random, to create the most analogue sound i could.
Pricer Organ - Taking advantage of ST2's great fx engine, i was dramatically change the tone of the original.
Serge Harpsichord - You never know when you'll need a crappy sounding harpsichord.

[Kim Lajoie]

Thanks Jeez for all the help, i may take u up on that 16 channel sine wave challenge

Just a moment...

Forever,




Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

Thanks Jeez for all the help, i may take u up on that 16 channel sine wave challenge

Here it is

It's just a small collection of patches using 16 harmonics.

Before you try the presets and get all the "instrument not found" messages, notice there's another file in the zip called "Kim Arp Sine.stip". Put that file next to the "Arp_ROW-Sine" instrument in your SS2 instruments folder.

"Arp_ROW-Sine" is normally found in Elements->Synth Wave.

Make sure you relist after installing the child preset, so SS2/ST2 can find it.

Forever,




Kim.

[pricer]

Very impressive stuff Jeez - did you use some waveform/osc viewer to get the desired patches, or do you know DX synthesis like the back of your hand. It took me a while to get the files working, as i totally forgot to relist ST2, i ended up renaming the file "Arp_ROW-Sine.stip" thinking that would do it, before i remembered to relist.

I guess this is the stuff that SS2 was made for.

[Kim Lajoie]

Very impressive stuff Jeez - did you use some waveform/osc viewer to get the desired patches, or do you know DX synthesis like the back of your hand.

DX Synthesis? I'm not sure what you mean. The combis I made are using additive synthesis - the technique of building a tonal sound as composite layers of natural harmonics. Interesting sounds can be made by modifying the pitch and volume (using envelopes and LFOs) of each harmonic.

The combis I made are just the result of maybe an hour (probably less actually) . Additive synthesis typically requires modification of many parameters of all harmonics, and each harmonic has to be adjusted individually. So basically, this is not really a "turn one knob and get a sound" sort of synthesis. More like "turn sixteen knobs and get a sound". I had to imagine the sound I was creating, before I could hear it.

I'd do a whole bank of these sounds, but it's too tedious to do it for fun. Someone would have to pay me.

Tip - play some chords with my additive combis and watch the level meters in ST2 (where you can see all 16 at once). Looks pretty.

It took me a while to get the files working, as i totally forgot to relist ST2, i ended up renaming the file "Arp_ROW-Sine.stip" thinking that would do it, before i remembered to relist.

Oh yes. Sorry. I should have included that step.

I guess this is the stuff that SS2 was made for.

Not quite, but one of the advantages of Sonik Synth 2 and SampleTank2 is that they're flexible enough to do crazy esoteric stuff like harmonic additive synthesis. There's also other great stuff that can be done with the effects, things like tuned resonance, pre/post eq emphasis to change the dynamic frequency response of certain effects, using synth parameters to modify effect behaviour, (ab)using STRETCH, etc etc etc.

Forever,




Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

Sorry, forgot to respond to this earlier...

How exactly do the sync patches work in SS2, as presumably they would be sync'd to the original synth LFO and not the LFO of SS2. Would there be any way of extracting trigger points from the synth waves to control the sync?

Synth sync sounds are either triggered by an envelope (sound "sweeps", then settles to a static level) or by LFO (repeatedly cycles between two extremes). In SS2, these sounds are part of the sample (the audio recording made of the synth). However, depending on the samples, you may have some luck with STRETCH - which is designed to speed up and slow down sounds without changing their pitch or character. Just go to the synth edit page and change the mode from "resamp" to "stretch".

Forever,




Kim.

[pricer]

the DX7 can do non-harmonic additive synthesis, where all six operators can be used as carriers with ascending frequency ratios - http://www.kfuenf.org/KAWAI.K5/dx7toadd.pdf.

[Squids]

the DX7 can do non-harmonic additive synthesis, where all six operators can be used as carriers with ascending frequency ratios - http://www.kfuenf.org/KAWAI.K5/dx7toadd.pdf.

For that the TX816 would be good. But, I like my K5000- more convenient (still need a knob box though!!!)

[progfusion74]

Great stuff guys. I think its time for me to start sharing patch banks

[pricer]

http://www.sampletankx.com/

I believe this is the best place at the moment to share, as i haven't seen any in patcharena yet.