DAC - the example of Korg Trinity VST

[Najimad]

Sorry, I forgot to add Brut Saturator by feltinstruments, they have just released it, so there are 1.542 plugins!

[VariKusBrainZ]

Damn, those guys are the Dons of marketing spiel. Love it

[Albert.VST]

The thing is, modern DACs aren't really introducing noticeable saturation or compression (ideally all that stuff is at or below -100 dBFS). They are very transparent. In Trinity case, the DAC rolls off the very highs above 18k, that's all. That's not even due to the TDA1305 chip, it's due to the lowpass filters AFTER them (see service manual). I am not sure why they used separate LPFs post-DAC, because TDA1305 has built in filtering...

Also, I remember some people getting confused back when Trinity plugin was originally released, about when is the button on or off. Dark blue means it's ON (you will see top end rolled off in a spectrum analyzer).

I completely agree. The Philips TDA1305 (that is the same as the TDA1549 as used in their latest generation CD-Players like the CD751 and CD753 and also the Marantz CD48) will not differ that much in sound from the DACs used in any decent modern audio interface.

[Gam456]

This is precisely why I don't like using DSP56300 emulators in projects. They don't feel like real instruments. Virus TI becomes an ordinary VSTi.

The hardware was not so easy to manage, menu diving, poor screen, not editable arp,
headaches with multi

Ostirus make everything way more smooth
Now we have a Virus Ti on our workstation

[kraster]

I am not sure why they used separate LPFs post-DAC, because TDA1305 has built in filtering...

Could be wrong, but I always figured the LPF after the I/V was there because those DACs are a bit partial to pushing their noise up into the ultrasonic range once they go analog. Even with the digital filter, there’s still plenty of HF knocking about.

The I/V op-amp has to be there anyway, but it doesn’t really deal with that. And if I remember right, most datasheets showed a low-pass right after the I/V, so it feels like pretty standard practice Essentially cheap insurance to keep ultrasonic stuff from causing knock-on issues downstream

[EvilDragon]

Right, I guess that makes sense, but why would they disregard the LPF already built into the TDA1305, whose sole reason IS to filter out the ultrasonic crap? Hehe.

[Gamma-UT]

Right, I guess that makes sense, but why would they disregard the LPF already built into the TDA1305, whose sole reason IS to filter out the ultrasonic crap? Hehe.

They didn't, at least according to the schematics. It has the requisite 1nF capacitor on the filter output, which is the Philips datasheet recommendation. But you and kraster have probably answered the question earlier in the thread. The stop band for the TDA starts at ~24kHz, whereas the µPC4570 op amps following the output appear to apply a second filter that rolls off at a lower frequency.

Presumably when tuning the sound, they found the TDA's filtering insufficient. Given the way these earlier samplers used a lot of sample prep and pre-emphasis, my guess is that the output cleans up sound from that processing that wouldn't be needed for a regular CD output...and which gives the Trinity a distinctive sound compared to its successors which may well have used far less hacking of the sample sources.

[EvilDragon]

Mmm, that's a pretty good reasoning. I can accept that.

[kraster]

Right, I guess that makes sense, but why would they disregard the LPF already built into the TDA1305, whose sole reason IS to filter out the ultrasonic crap? Hehe.

They didn't, at least according to the schematics. It has the requisite 1nF capacitor on the filter output, which is the Philips datasheet recommendation. But you and kraster have probably answered the question earlier in the thread. The stop band for the TDA starts at ~24kHz, whereas the µPC4570 op amps following the output appear to apply a second filter that rolls off at a lower frequency.

Presumably when tuning the sound, they found the TDA's filtering insufficient. Given the way these earlier samplers used a lot of sample prep and pre-emphasis, my guess is that the output cleans up sound from that processing that wouldn't be needed for a regular CD output...and which gives the Trinity a distinctive sound compared to its successors which may well have used far less hacking of the sample sources.

Yeah 24k is too close to Nyquist for comfort. There could still be a a not insignificant amount of transition band slop that could pose intermodulation issues later in the chain. Op Amps tend to get a bit fuzzy with that kind of stuff. So the filter would be just a crude way of suppressing that.

I always find it fascinating that those kind of mundane engineering challenges become part of the "sound" that people talk about for years after.

[frag]

There is no DAC emulation in Swayed.

It's basically just an EQ tweak, nothing else. The difference is not as huge as you make it, even on Trinity plugin. (Triton plugin also has the option, and I leave it off really because I can EQ my own shit.) In a mix you do this anyways, nobody will ever notice if you used the DAC option or not.

PCB, connectors and ribbon cables inside of a digital synth absolutely don't affect the sound of it.

They don't feel like real instruments. Virus TI becomes an ordinary VSTi.

Frankly, this is bullshit. An instrument is what you make of it. Plenty of shootouts have confirmed the sound is absolutely there.

Let me give you a piece of advice - something your friends and parents won't tell you (I suppose they're afraid of you).

You're in the wrong business.
Your hearing seems to be damaged, or at least not up to musical standards. You don't understand music.
You're trying to attract attention by posting tons of messages on internet "oh let me say something opposite, I will look smart".

Figure out what you REALLY want to do in life, it's never too late
You may not understand this at the moment, but in time, you will see this is the best and most generous advice anyone has ever given to you...

[swilow11]

Why does synth discussion attract so many pompous twats?

[rafa1981]

Duplicate

[rafa1981]

Lots of bullshit...

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

[ramseysounds]

There is no DAC emulation in Swayed.

It's basically just an EQ tweak, nothing else. The difference is not as huge as you make it, even on Trinity plugin. (Triton plugin also has the option, and I leave it off really because I can EQ my own shit.) In a mix you do this anyways, nobody will ever notice if you used the DAC option or not.

PCB, connectors and ribbon cables inside of a digital synth absolutely don't affect the sound of it.

They don't feel like real instruments. Virus TI becomes an ordinary VSTi.

Frankly, this is bullshit. An instrument is what you make of it. Plenty of shootouts have confirmed the sound is absolutely there.

Let me give you a piece of advice - something your friends and parents won't tell you (I suppose they're afraid of you).

You're in the wrong business.
Your hearing seems to be damaged, or at least not up to musical standards. You don't understand music.
You're trying to attract attention by posting tons of messages on internet "oh let me say something opposite, I will look smart".

Figure out what you REALLY want to do in life, it's never too late
You may not understand this at the moment, but in time, you will see this is the best and most generous advice anyone has ever given to you...

Do you not see how ironic your response is

[EvilDragon]

Let me give you advice, too, frag. Don't resort to ad hominems when you have nothing useful to add to a discussion, or cannot accept the fact that somebody might know more than you about a certain topic. It doesn't make you look particularly smart.