Fabfilter Pro-C 3

[Scoops]

You know what else gets you in the ballpark?

Actually listening to the actual level in the context of a mix.

The idea that it's some kind of cardinal sin that a compressor adds or removes level is a relatively recent and quite bizarre phenomenon.

Not using a compressor because it doesn't have autogain pretty much rules out most of the best compressors ever made.

Thank you for saving me some typing!

Any time I see an "auto"-anything, by default, that means to me: click button, adjust to taste. It seems to me that too many people aren't aware of that second part.

Yep, gotta let the ears be the guide, not auto-gismosis.

[E_Anderson]

crazy SECRET roducer hack 🫵

Assign input/threshold and output gain to an XY controller.

• X axis controls depth of compression
• Y axis controls makeup, or visa versa.

It's the one-handed version of the two-handed analog workflow, automatic manual autogain.

[E_Anderson]

double post. Please enjoy this image of a KVR reply, instead:

[dastewart]

Pro-C2 was quite "vanilla" when it came to special sauce and that elusive analogue sound. That is absolutely no longer the case with Pro-C3.

I spent almost a year of development time on the Versatile algorithm and it's very far from being a by-the-book compressor. I was kind of hoping somebody would be running it through Plugin Doctor by now but so far only one Youtube influencer seemed to notice just how much is going on under the hood. A huge shout out to Audio Toolshed for that.

'Versatile' algorithm is quite peculiar in how it works internally and quite different from all the other models. It's the only algorithm that actually creates a lot of strong 2nd harmonics, frequency dependently, through the compression itself. It doesn't have any saturation bolted on or anything fancy or tricky like that.. but it's a very capable "mojo" thing all by itself. It is also using a sophisticated release which is frequency dependent (slower release on low frequencies but also shaped in a different way to keep even stronger 2nd harmonics the lower you go).

If you set stereo linking to 0% you'll also notice that there is very subtle variation constantly happening between left and right channels. This can be used to get very subtle stereo detachment on mono sources or even some stereo width for stereo sources. You know, that feeling of things just being "slightly more 3D" when you plug stuff into an analogue chain. Well, this algorithm aims to model that kind of behavior but not at all exaggerated. It's super super subtle but it's there.

I've also carefully tuned attack and release knob ranges to be useful and tonally interesting no matter where you set it. The full range of the attack knob is in use so don't be afraid of exploring the 100 to 250ms range. It changes the shape of the attack and is interactive with the release. Thus the typical slow attack + fast release was designed to be a punch monster, so that you can get even the flabbiest kick to really punch if you so desire.


My other algorithm called 'Smooth' is a pseudo-feedback design. It's purpose was to explore extremely "musical" and easy to setup compression. It's especially effective when the AUTO release button is used and release % is set between 60 to 90%. It should absolutely effortlessly glue signals and just "dance gently with the incoming audio" (can't really figure out any other way to put it!). It thrives with low ratios, very soft knee (24dB all the way to 72dB!) and deep thresholds. However, you can of course also use much higher ratios, sharp knee and any way you like and even if it is a feedback like system, it is internally compensated to never stop itself from compressing. The harmonic profile and tonality was also calibrated to make it as nice sounding as I could get it, always staying "smooth" in it's sound and trying to avoid forward pushing feeling.


And then finally there's the 'Bright' saturation algorithm. It's a bit of an oddball thing. It's mainly meant to be able to shave off some transients quite transparently while still having a pleasant harmonic profile. Unfortunately the sweetspot for that transient shaving is sometimes difficult to find as it kind of sneaks up on you and can be difficult to detect on some audio sources. However, I decided to keep the design because it also sounds really good at very low drive levels.. almost all the way down to the noise floor. And finally it also distorts very weirdly once you truly push it hard. It starts by saturating bass but sort of leaves highs alone. It's surprisingly potent on vocals because it starts saturating the lows and low-mids way before it does anything to the high-mids and highs. It's a very weird algorithm, very unique and thus in my opinion very useful among the other two saturation algorithms. I can absolutely guarantee you that no other plugin has this kind of saturation nor will it ever exist anywhere else. It isn't based on anything other than my twisted mind.

Oh and one more thing: 'Bright' saturation was actually developed in tandem with the 'Versatile' compressor algorithm. They complement each other very well due to the strong 2nd harmonic nature of the compression. There is a whole universe of "mojo" explorable with just these two algorithms in tandem. I highly suggest checking out the 'Sauce' preset folder and exploring what I did with the "Gentle Harmonic Magic" preset. 'Versatile' algorithm was used here for the strong 2nd harmonics (it's doing barely any compression at all.. like 0.3dB or so) and is skewed by a crazy 36dB all-pass filter in the middle signal only.. and it's also set to M -> S linking mode which means the mids are compressing the sides, meaning the mid signal is dictating the harmonics generated on the side. And simply by changing the attack and release knobs you can vary the underlying harmonic structure. Yeah, there's subtle mojo for days to be explored here. I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff so naturally I had to add something like this to Pro-C3 when FabFilter kindly gave me the chance to do so!

Anyhow, that's my part of the development explained.

EDIT: Oh and do explore Op-El and especially the Vari-Mu emulations. Those are deep deep emulations and more importantly, extensions of famous known compression topologies. The Vari-Mu algorithm goes incredibly deep and is difficult to grasp as there are some hidden features that I discovered only a few days before release. Open up the SideChain panel and use the Side Chain Level control to sort of "bias" the tube pair that does the VariMu thing. I'm not sure if this is a bug or unintended feature but it is NOT the same as simply changing the threshold. It completely changes the behavior and feel of the Vari-Mu algorithm! I really hope it isn't a bug that suddenly gets "fixed" though.. as it's an awesome feature.

Also don't forget to explore the 'Mix' control in the Input/Output panel in the bottom right corner. It's not exactly a normal mix slider. Rather it's a built in multiplier for everything and because we are dealing with highly program dependent algorithms, that mix slider can be abused. 2:1 ratio can be made to be 4:1 ratio but it will not sound the same as simply changing the ratio, at least not on the more complex models.

Cheers!
bM

Wow - this is the kind of information that has always been lacking with the whole Pro Cn line of products and probably the reason that I've struggled to fall in love with Pro C2 despite using it quite a bit.

The "one sentence" description of styles that FF gives just doesn't do enough to explain what is going on, and how to use it. I even asked a FF rep in person to give some more detail and they pretty much told me to work it out for myself!

Yup, given enough time I probably could work it out for myself but the problem with the Pro C is that it is damn flexible (and differences in compression aren't the easiest thing to hear) that a little bit of a helping hand wouldn't go amiss.

Step in bmanic with an amazing explanation of the styles and I am so, so grateful. That's exactly what I needed and it's just shame that he (probably) can't do the same thing for all the other styles.

Chapeau

[wibblywobblywomble]

yup, bmanic coming in as the VIP of this thread and pro-C3 generally. The biggest problem with C2 was that it had a bajillion (ok more like 10) "modes" and their official descriptions are absolutely useless. The "classic" 1176-inspired mode is nothing like an 1176, the Opto is nothing like an optical compressor but ironically when set to a very fast attack it behaves a lot like an 1176!! The bus mode is presumably meant to be like an SSL bus comp but the "clean" mode seems to be closer IIRC (*been a long time since I heard a real SSL so maybe I'm wrong about that one). And I am still not sure I know what "mastering" mode is supposed to be good for. Shame, because I really liked the sidechain with its EQ and the overall layout and monitoring.

For workflow, and this is just my personal opinion, I prefer general-use compressors to have just a few very clearly delineated modes, with parameters that can take the behavior of each mode to the edge of the next if you want to tweak. The new versatile, op-el and mu modes on pro-c3 might actually allow for that, maybe I will have to check it out.

[bmanic]

I would absolutely give you a deep go-through of the other algorithms as well but unfortunately the fact is that I do not know them as well as I do the new ones, simply because I had absolutely nothing to do with the previous Pro-C development (other than basic beta testing). Whereas with Pro-C3 I actually know how the sauce was made and also created a some of it myself.

[bmanic]

And I am still not sure I know what "mastering" mode is supposed to be good for.

It's the most "invisible" compressor algorithm in Pro-C. No matter what attack and release settings you set, it'll be quite slow and refuses to do fast movements. It's also constantly program dependent in it's release, having a quite unique release shape, trying to stay as invisible as possible. Minimal distortion, probably the least distorted of all of the algorithms.

It's a shame it's called "Mastering" though. I'd call it 'Super Clean' or 'Bleach'. It is the cleanest algorithm in the whole plugin and is excellent on pretty much any signal source where you just want to restrict the overall macro dynamics without changing the signal tonality or feel at all.

Personally I think it's absolute 'black magic' and have no idea how Floris created that algorithm. It's amazing! One of the original Pro-C2 algorithms that I've been using a lot over the years.

[dastewart]

I would absolutely give you a deep go-through of the other algorithms as well but unfortunately the fact is that I do not know them as well as I do the new ones, simply because I had absolutely nothing to do with the previous Pro-C development (other than basic beta testing). Whereas with Pro-C3 I actually know how the sauce was made and also created a some of it myself.

Yup, I figured as much but thought I'd ask just in case.

You did a fine job with the Unisum presets so when I buy it (which I guess I will eventually) I look forward to hearing what you've done with Pro C3. I'll be bookmarking your post here when trying to understand the Pro C3 styles that you've worked on.

And since you've obviously got a line in to the FF guys then perhaps you can nudge them to provide a similar detailed explanation of all the other styles. It would be really helpful.

[coroknight]

I quite like the sound of TTM mode, but I don't understand why they put it in Pro-C instead of a hypothetical Pro-MB 2.

Fabfilter seems to have a weird relationship with Pro-MB. It's arguably Fabfilter's second highest regarded plugin (behind Pro-Q), yet it feels like they don't even want it to exist or at least they don't want to touch it ever again.

[walltone]

I quite like the sound of TTM mode, but I don't understand why they put it in Pro-C instead of a hypothetical Pro-MB 2.

Fabfilter seems to have a weird relationship with Pro-MB. It's arguably Fabfilter's second highest regarded plugin (behind Pro-Q), yet it feels like they don't even want it to exist or at least they don't want to touch it ever again.

I would guess that Pro-L 2 is their second most popular or possibly the most widely used plugin.

[coroknight]

I quite like the sound of TTM mode, but I don't understand why they put it in Pro-C instead of a hypothetical Pro-MB 2.

Fabfilter seems to have a weird relationship with Pro-MB. It's arguably Fabfilter's second highest regarded plugin (behind Pro-Q), yet it feels like they don't even want it to exist or at least they don't want to touch it ever again.

I would guess that Pro-L 2 is their second most popular or possibly the most widely used plugin.

I said “regarded” not popular or widely used. I understand that Pro-MB is a more specialized tool, but based on how people talk about it I think it’s one of their most highly regarded plugins for what it does.

[skarvika]

Pricing is almost an insult. This compressor is really nothing to worry about not owning.
Enjoy making sweet music, this comp will have no impact whatsoever on the results of a mix compared to even free software.

Hey, don't be so quick to judge. When they decide to rain value upon us lowly peasants with their steep annual discount, you'll be able to get it for the low low price of $150. And UA thought they could swindle me with an LA-2A, 1176 and Distressor all for $50 in the holiday mixtape bundle? Yeah, whatever. It's not a good plugin unless I need to take out a loan.

I still love you, Pro-Q 4.

[Ploki]

Pricing is almost an insult. This compressor is really nothing to worry about not owning.
Enjoy making sweet music, this comp will have no impact whatsoever on the results of a mix compared to even free software.

Hey, don't be so quick to judge. When they decide to rain value upon us lowly peasants with their steep annual discount, you'll be able to get it for the low low price of $150. And UA thought they could swindle me with an LA-2A, 1176 and Distressor all for $50 in the holiday mixtape bundle? Yeah, whatever. It's not a good plugin unless I need to take out a loan.

I still love you, Pro-Q 4.

i bought it and it paid for itself in 15minutes

i'm not sure how sustainable catering to professionals is, but i appreciate that a few companies still are. Else it's gonna happen that professional tools will simply be gone and we're gonna have to use enthusiast shit. Sure, cheaper buy-in, but saves less time = less money in the long run.

[skarvika]

Pricing is almost an insult. This compressor is really nothing to worry about not owning.
Enjoy making sweet music, this comp will have no impact whatsoever on the results of a mix compared to even free software.

Hey, don't be so quick to judge. When they decide to rain value upon us lowly peasants with their steep annual discount, you'll be able to get it for the low low price of $150. And UA thought they could swindle me with an LA-2A, 1176 and Distressor all for $50 in the holiday mixtape bundle? Yeah, whatever. It's not a good plugin unless I need to take out a loan.

I still love you, Pro-Q 4.

i bought it and it paid for itself in 15minutes

i'm not sure how sustainable catering to professionals is, but i appreciate that a few companies still are. Else it's gonna happen that professional tools will simply be gone and we're gonna have to use enthusiast shit. Sure, cheaper buy-in, but saves less time = less money in the long run.

Not knocking it, I think Fabfilter makes good plugins, but let's not kid ourselves about the cost. The quality gap has shrunk significantly in the past several years to where even free plugins are nothing to scoff at. The pricing for this just isn't competitive, and as far as "catering to professionals" goes, even if it could be had for $70, your songs wouldn't be worse off nor would you be any less of a professional. Besides, better music than you or I could make has been made with much worse tools than we have access to.

[MrJubbly]

There appears to be some comments regarding the pricing and value of FabFilter plugins. Presumably, much of the criticism is aimed primarily at purchasing individual standalone plugins, such as Pro-C 3, at full price without any customer loyalty discount offered factored in?

All I can say on the matter is that in my opinion, FabFilter plugins are well worth the asking price. Especially so, for any Total bundle owners - who receive a very generous 65% discount off every new major upgrade plugin FabFilter release.

Since I use FF plugins very frequently in every project I create, their value to me is more than worth the asking price and is a no brainer with the standard FabFilter discount factored in. I don't know how much I have saved over the years, but it adds up to a decent amount.

Of all the plugin bundles I have purchased, I have never once regretted buying FabFilter's Total Bundle. Quite the opposite as the discounts still keep paying off with each new upgrade they release. The Total bundle might seem a bit pricey to some, as an up front cost, but imo it definitely pays off in the long run, with all the great savings on future updates. And since it's FabFilter we're talking about, it goes without saying that each new release will be a quality product, worth getting.

Just looking back to some of the more recent upgrades and the standard 65% discount, makes them appear very affordable...

Pro-C 3: Total Price incl. VAT = £52.15 (saved £96.85)
Pro-Q 4: Total Price incl. VAT = £50.40 (saved £93.60)
Pro-R 2: Total Price incl. VAT = £50.40 (saved £93.60)
Twin 3: Total Price incl. VAT = £38.15 (saved £70.85)
Volcano 3: Total Price incl. VAT = £32.90 (saved £61.10)
Timeless 3: Total Price incl. VAT = £32.90 (saved £61.10)