Yet another stereo imaging/widening question.

[mikedboh]

I'm still learning a lot about the imaging aspect of recording, but I recently came across what may be my biggest problem. It would appear that there is a limit as to how far out you should go, and there is a way to limit this once it reaches a certain point, and that is what I'm trying to accomplish. I'll let the pictures explain what I mean.

This is what I'm getting...(keep in mind I get it going out on ALL sides, not just the top left and bottom right, this was just a fast example)



And this is what all professional mixes seem to be like.


Notice that the lines never extend beyond the borders. Could someone shed some light on this for me? Or direct me towards a plugin that will allow me to apply/improve stereo imaging while giving me the option of 'limiting' it? Thanks guys!

[kylen]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here so take this with a grain of salt...

The pics above only show part of the story. It might depend what the freq balance of the sides and the middle is as to a next possible step. You might need to eq the sides and roll off some bass - or compress the sides or compress the middle...or all that including handling the entire stero filed at once (as is normally done with L-R processors).

You're using c_superstereo so drop the center completetely out of the equation. Now (using free Voxengo SPAN spectrum analyzer - or your favorite one) try and determin if the slope of your sides amtches the reference you're using. I'm looking at 'Peaceful Easy Feeling' by the Eagles - vintage 70's recording. When I just look at the sides compared to the whole mix I see an EQ roll-off starting around 500Hz or 600Hz. The rms dynamic range of the sides seems to be the same as the full stereo (sides & middle) - about 7 or 8dB from average rms to peak rms (SPAN shows this). This is easier to see in GlissEQ where I can do real-time spectrum overlays, or Ozone has static averaging overlays.

It's possible that a maximizer or mastering limiter like TLs or Kjaerhus free Classic might tame the entire stereo field. Or the free 2-band digitalfishphones Endorphin lets you compress the sides or the middle seperately.

Voxengo CurveEQ has mid-side control for EQ & Soniformer is a multiband compressor that has mid-side control.

Or you can just use c_superstereo to fold the sides in a bit by either changing the width or centre and adding any mastering limiter you might need.

Lot's of options! It's cool looking at references of your favorite stuff to see how they've handled the balance!

[mikedboh]

Ok...first off. I'm the idiot for coming up with the whole post....but....Im' surprised nobody called me on this...Maybe it's because most people don't use c_superstereo. BUT...after you apply the plugin to the track, if you go back in and 'listen' to it without applying more effect, it does not go outside of the boundaries(basically the effect gets applied but everything outside of that is lost{the way it should be right?} so yea....I made the whole problem up...

[kylen]

Oh - you mean you rendered the effect then during playback still had the effect on - like doing it twice? Silly

...I've done that too...usually I have it in an effects rack in a multitracker - but sometimes in an editor like Cool Edit I'll forget

[audio class]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here so take this with a grain of salt...

The pics above only show part of the story. It might depend what the freq balance of the sides and the middle is as to a next possible step. You might need to eq the sides and roll off some bass - or compress the sides or compress the middle...or all that including handling the entire stero filed at once (as is normally done with L-R processors).

Hi, just noticed some words im unfamiliar with. "Sides" "middle" "roll-off". Actually the words I know in themselves, but not in the context you use them. I suspect a better understanding of what you mentioned here might be the boost I need to better understand my mixes -Abel G

[IainF]

Any stereo signal can be converted to a so-called mid-side signals. the 'Mid' signal is a mix of left and right ( L+R ) and contains the information that is in the centre of the mix. The 'Side' signal is found be inverting the polarity of one of the stereo channels, say the right one, so this gives you L-R. The signals on the side channel contain the information that is not in the middle (i.e. the side information). Any sound panned to the centre of a stereo mix will not show up in the mid channel, but not the side signal. Conversely, any singal that is 180 degrees out of phase in the left and right channels will not show up in the mid signal, but will be in the side signal.

To get back to normal stereo we can do this. M+S (or (L+R)+(L-R) ) this gives us the left channel. M-S ( or (L+R)-(L-R) ) gies us the right channel.

Roll-off refers to reducing the amplitude with some kind of filter.