Plugin idea

[CinningBao]

You don't have to learn coding, but you do need to understand the principles of the field you're entering. Imagine if a guy said "I have a unique ideas for a new car, one you've never seen before, are there any engineers here who can build it for me?", those engineers are going to need a bit more from you than your broad idea explained. They will want to see diagrams, they'll want to understand that you understand how a car works so they aren't building it from crayola scrawlings.

Same as the devs here: if you've got an idea for a plugin (and now from what you've said, I've determined it is a MIDI plugin, something which creates or affects MIDI notes or CC data) you really need to understand if it's even possible. If your car design requires 2 steering wheels and the engineers say "well, that's not really how you build a car, you don't really need one steering wheel for each wheel on the road" .. you could end up in that same position with your plugin idea; wasting people's time with bad solutions.

Visual coding might give you access to exploring the idea you have much faster and easier than 'real' coding, as you see it. The applications we've mentioned, like Max, Bidule, Pure Data and Reaktor, are all programming environments you can prototype ideas with and see if they actually work.

I mean, it might be that your fancy idea is complete tosh! Perfect for one single use in your environment, but useless for everyone else (worst case scenario, but I hope it makes the point).

If you've got time to think of ideas, you've got time to learn the basics of DSP and to work out what you need to know in order to speak to a dev with atleast _some_ awareness of the problems they might encounter building your wonderful thingy. Don't waste your time on here telling us you don't need to understand stuff. I promise your product, and the time you spend on it, will be much more worthwhile and satisfying if you have researched and understood what you want someone else to build. Knowing it will also help you conversing with a dev to build/change it.

[ShredofLight]

Ok, then we have a whole list of things you don't want to do:
- Learn coding
- Use no-code tools to prototype
- Invest time because of youtube and day job
- Invest money to pay a professional dev
- Talk about your idea

What do you want to do, then?

the thing i keep repeating, find a trusted by all master coder willing to be a 50/50 partner. And you got somethings wrong in your list: i will invest time just not to learn how to code since i believe i can bring something to the table other than coding; I have not sufficient wealth to pay for the plugin upfront but if we succeed he earns half. And then licensing could potentially be involved also . If i can find such person great, if not i guess i will have to try my luck with the seed investor banker.

[ShredofLight]

You don't have to learn coding, but you do need to understand the principles of the field you're entering. Imagine if a guy said "I have a unique ideas for a new car, one you've never seen before, are there any engineers here who can build it for me?", those engineers are going to need a bit more from you than your broad idea explained. They will want to see diagrams, they'll want to understand that you understand how a car works so they aren't building it from crayola scrawlings.

Same as the devs here: if you've got an idea for a plugin (and now from what you've said, I've determined it is a MIDI plugin, something which creates or affects MIDI notes or CC data) you really need to understand if it's even possible. If your car design requires 2 steering wheels and the engineers say "well, that's not really how you build a car, you don't really need one steering wheel for each wheel on the road" .. you could end up in that same position with your plugin idea; wasting people's time with bad solutions.

Visual coding might give you access to exploring the idea you have much faster and easier than 'real' coding, as you see it. The applications we've mentioned, like Max, Bidule, Pure Data and Reaktor, are all programming environments you can prototype ideas with and see if they actually work.

I mean, it might be that your fancy idea is complete tosh! Perfect for one single use in your environment, but useless for everyone else (worst case scenario, but I hope it makes the point).

If you've got time to think of ideas, you've got time to learn the basics of DSP and to work out what you need to know in order to speak to a dev with atleast _some_ awareness of the problems they might encounter building your wonderful thingy. Don't waste your time on here telling us you don't need to understand stuff. I promise your product, and the time you spend on it, will be much more worthwhile and satisfying if you have researched and understood what you want someone else to build. Knowing it will also help you conversing with a dev to build/change it.

I understand your valid concerns, but i know the principles of the field enough to make it clear to a dev without any doubt, just not enough to code them. And the plugin is totally feasible. I think some of you would laugh at the simplicity, but good ideas don't have to be complicated.

[CinningBao]

Yeah, that's not going to work for most respectable developers. They will want payment, not " a share in potential success"; that isn't how professionals sell their skills.
Believe me, I'm an 'ideas' guy too, and I've had a TONNE of ideas over the years.

In reality, most of those ideas were either not original, unecessarily complex due to me not understanding how 'regular' versions of them work, or just crappy ideas which was only clear after I'd prototyped them. The remaining good ideas have actually been worth exploring, prototyping in various different engines to make sure the idea itself wasn't a dud. Those few things I am working on with devs to release, I'm only doing because I am absolutely sure there is nothing else in the plugin scene like them.

Can I recommend, because it looks like it's one of your options, you don't borrow a load of money to get it out. Some of the worst outcomes and biggest mistakes come from large investments into not-well-thought-out ideas.

Maybe you need to sit down with a dev for professional advice about your idea. That would be much cheaper than a huge investment and they would be able to tell you all the things you don't know about developing a plugin; how much you'd be expected to pay the devs, what they want from you that you have, what they want from you that you don't have, how long it might take, if the idea is even 1. original and 2. possible.

Compitent DSP plugin devs spend multi-dozens of years learning, testing, growing, building a framework of tools to help them get their idea to completion without having to write all the basic things from scratch.. it isn't just "speak to a guy and he builds a thing".

Honestly, if I was an actual coding dude looking for work, you have not sold me on your idea at all. You haven't given me the confidence that you know what we would be doing other than following your guide for the finished product, and software development needs a lot more than that.

[ShredofLight]

Yeah, that's not going to work for most respectable developers. They will want payment, not " a share in potential success"; that isn't how professionals sell their skills.
Believe me, I'm an 'ideas' guy too, and I've had a TONNE of ideas over the years.

In reality, most of those ideas were either not original, unecessarily complex due to me not understanding how 'regular' versions of them work, or just crappy ideas which was only clear after I'd prototyped them. The remaining good ideas have actually been worth exploring, prototyping in various different engines to make sure the idea itself wasn't a dud. Those few things I am working on with devs to release, I'm only doing because I am absolutely sure there is nothing else in the plugin scene like them.

Can I recommend, because it looks like it's one of your options, you don't borrow a load of money to get it out. Some of the worst outcomes and biggest mistakes come from large investments into not-well-thought-out ideas.

Maybe you need to sit down with a dev for professional advice about your idea. That would be much cheaper than a huge investment and they would be able to tell you all the things you don't know about developing a plugin; how much you'd be expected to pay the devs, what they want from you that you have, what they want from you that you don't have, how long it might take, if the idea is even 1. original and 2. possible.

Compitent DSP plugin devs spend multi-dozens of years learning, testing, growing, building a framework of tools to help them get their idea to completion without having to write all the basic things from scratch.. it isn't just "speak to a guy and he builds a thing".

Honestly, if I was an actual coding dude looking for work, you have not sold me on your idea at all. You haven't given me the confidence that you know what we would be doing other than following your guide for the finished product, and software development needs a lot more than that.

Fair enough, thank you for your insight. I see a lot of people are assuming that my idea is bad and honestly i can't blame anybody. Totally understandable

[CinningBao]

All I'm saying is that it sounds like you need to a little bit more work before you hire someone to build it. I've no idea if it's a good or bad idea! It could well be a thing which does a thing no-one else has done before, or does a thing we already do but differently and easier(?) with more flexibility.. I hope it is!

Holy sh1t you've got some skills on the old frying pan haven't you. I actually enjoy hearing people practise their instrument; I like hearing people refining the movements of their body with these repetive actions, the mechanics of which are 'heard' through the instruments. And we all do it differently. That upside-thumb manoeuvre is not something I remember seeing before, but we contort as we need, right!?

[NAD]

If i say everything out loud i am afraid of somebody will steal the idea.

Would that be so bad though? You weren't thinking of getting rich off this idea, were you? So wouldn't it be nice if someone actually made it and then it would exist and people could use it? Of course as others have mentioned, most developers here probably have more ideas of their own than they could ever possibly make, so even if you totally spill the beans there's a good chance no one will pick it up. And then at least you could get a feel for if other people think it's a good idea or not. Also if someone does just flat out steal it without consulting you or giving you any credit, there will be a public record that you came up with it, and the kind folks here on KVR will be more than happy to join you on an internet-wide shaming crusade.

[kerfuffle]

the thing i keep repeating, find a trusted by all master coder willing to be a 50/50 partner.

What are you going to do for your 50%?

[v4p0r]

If i say everything out loud i am afraid of somebody will steal the idea. I guess i am just trying to find a person that i can trust

I once had the idea to apply well temperament to recordings, I think when Autotune came out. That's now over 25 years or so and still nobody cared to make it afaik, maybe because nobody absolutely needs it. Or because musicians just don't care enough, because, reasons. And then the market might not be what you assume, too. Imo it is safe to just talk about how your idea works, because you might learn that/why you need to be convinced, and not only having the idea.

[BertKoor]

You know what: register a patent.

It forces you to describe what it is and how it roughly works. (I hope the patents office has a quality bar, you need to pass their requirement)

Having the patent gives you protection, so you can discuss it freely.

Even "patent pending" suffices

[ShredofLight]

All I'm saying is that it sounds like you need to a little bit more work before you hire someone to build it. I've no idea if it's a good or bad idea! It could well be a thing which does a thing no-one else has done before, or does a thing we already do but differently and easier(?) with more flexibility.. I hope it is!

Holy sh1t you've got some skills on the old frying pan haven't you. I actually enjoy hearing people practise their instrument; I like hearing people refining the movements of their body with these repetive actions, the mechanics of which are 'heard' through the instruments. And we all do it differently. That upside-thumb manoeuvre is not something I remember seeing before, but we contort as we need, right!?

I said it before is something new , never done before and i been honing it for years now. I am involved with music for 30+ years and was enrolled in analytical chemistry university course, heavy on math and physics, so i think i can explain it in a clear manner. You are right though, for all you guys know i could be a kid that woke up and wants a new bass boost plugin and thinks that is was never done. What do you mean by the upside-thumb manoeuvre? haha in the take 6 video? Thanks man

[ShredofLight]

the thing i keep repeating, find a trusted by all master coder willing to be a 50/50 partner.

What are you going to do for your 50%?

To start i am way in my 50% already to be fair, but of course i will do anything reasonable to see this plugin made , as i truly believe it will be a great tool for myself and others.

[ShredofLight]

If i say everything out loud i am afraid of somebody will steal the idea.

Would that be so bad though? You weren't thinking of getting rich off this idea, were you? So wouldn't it be nice if someone actually made it and then it would exist and people could use it? Of course as others have mentioned, most developers here probably have more ideas of their own than they could ever possibly make, so even if you totally spill the beans there's a good chance no one will pick it up. And then at least you could get a feel for if other people think it's a good idea or not. Also if someone does just flat out steal it without consulting you or giving you any credit, there will be a public record that you came up with it, and the kind folks here on KVR will be more than happy to join you on an internet-wide shaming crusade.

the crusade thing is tempting : ) . Yes i would like to see some renumeration afterwards for both of us true. But at the same time , as i think this is a invaluable tool for everybody i would like for everybody to use it, but making it free isn't fair for the dev also, as you all were swift to remind me devs don't work for free and i am already pushing it a lot by asking for a pro willing to believe in what could be seen as someone "dreaming" and to "pro bono" the first stages of development.

[camsr]

If your idea requires much action on the user's part inside a GUI, you can expect to pay more for the coding/programming. An idea can be realized without an advanced GUI, but controlling the algorithm(s) may be more difficult then. GUI programming statistically takes more time and testing than an algorithm. If you already know what your idea should sound like (have you heard it before? was it a pleasant mistake that you want to recreate on demand?) you really should try to prototype it yourself with whatever code you can manage.

When you come to the DSP and Plugin Development Forum, ask for a coder, but provide no details, you are on your own unfortunately. I could see costs being as little as 100$ depending on the details of the idea. If you want to represent your potential idea better, you may say something like, (it only uses MIDI to do it), or (when the MIDI signal is on this channel, it makes this sound, when these notes are played), or even, (I have no idea how this sound was made, but I know what is sounds like, and I will tell you when your coding efforts achieve that sound). You will identify subsystems required (no coding required to do that) to produce your product and that will determine the scope of coding effort required. All that can be done without exposing your idea.

[ShredofLight]

If your idea requires much action on the user's part inside a GUI, you can expect to pay more for the coding/programming. An idea can be realized without an advanced GUI, but controlling the algorithm(s) may be more difficult then. GUI programming statistically takes more time and testing than an algorithm. If you already know what your idea should sound like (have you heard it before? was it a pleasant mistake that you want to recreate on demand?) you really should try to prototype it yourself with whatever code you can manage.

When you come to the DSP and Plugin Development Forum, ask for a coder, but provide no details, you are on your own unfortunately. I could see costs being as little as 100$ depending on the details of the idea. If you want to represent your potential idea better, you may say something like, (it only uses MIDI to do it), or (when the MIDI signal is on this channel, it makes this sound, when these notes are played), or even, (I have no idea how this sound was made, but I know what is sounds like, and I will tell you when your coding efforts achieve that sound). You will identify subsystems required (no coding required to do that) to produce your product and that will determine the scope of coding effort required. All that can be done without exposing your idea.

Yes completely fair. i provided some important details though. first implementation would be midi only, it receives midi information from the playing instrument , processes it and sends it to a virtual instrument , DAW or whatnot. the GUI could be just one algorithm selector in the most basic form , but there is options that can be added for a more refined user experience and aesthetics ones , like a keyboard.