Native Instruments file for insolvency...

[Vocalpoint Studios]

yes but maybe people upgrading to Komplete wasn't their biggest bread and butter. rsp

Komplete was easily their biggest loss-leader ever.

What was the classic Charlie Sheen line from Wall Street:

"Don't sell a seat to a guy for 79 bucks when he's willing to pay 379!"

Komplete was boon for us but disaster for NI going back years...

Probably one of the reasons we arrived at this day.

VP

[EvilDragon]

Both Komplete and Kontakt remain very profitable, unsure why you'd say it's a loss leader.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Both Komplete and Kontakt remain very profitable, unsure why you'd say it's a loss leader.

Kontakt itself sells for $299.00 and a Komplete Standard Upgrade WITH Kontakt (and 3000.00 worth of other stuff that is now NOT being sold for $3000.00) also sells for $299.00

If you can't see "loss-leader" in here - not sure what to tell you.

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VP

[EvilDragon]

You wouldn't believe but people are actually also buying standalone licenses of Kontakt, too. it's not an insignificant chunk of dough that that brings in.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

You wouldn't believe but people are actually also buying standalone licenses of Kontakt, too. it's not an insignificant chunk of dough that that brings in.

I do not disagree.

But that does not answer the question about the $3000.00 that gets left on the table - each time someone upgrades Komplete Standard - for not $3000.00

VP

[apoclypse]

You wouldn't believe but people are actually also buying standalone licenses of Kontakt, too. it's not an insignificant chunk of dough that that brings in.

I do not disagree.

But that does not answer the question about the $3000.00 that gets left on the table - each time someone upgrades Komplete Standard - for not $3000.00

VP

Maybe it was never worth $3000 to begin with? I mean usually this stuff is high margin anyway. The $3000 is usually marketing, like "hey get this thing that we say is super expensive for a crazy good deal", but they made up the price anyway. That being said I get what you are saying here. I remember getting Koimplete 4 with the Kore (1) hardware for like $899 and seeing the original price quoted as $1899. I had to call my Sweetwater rep to reconcile that as I couldn't wrap my head around getting Kore and Komplete for such a low price at the time. They got me with marketing.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Maybe it was never worth $3000 to begin with? I mean usually this stuff is high margin anyway. The $3000 is usually marketing, like "hey get this thing that we say is super expensive for a crazy good deal", but they made up the price anyway. That being said I get what you are saying here.

Yeah - of course it is made up. But the list prices of each product are not.

All I am saying is - a little more focus on real cash flow and less "Cyber Sales" and more focus on quality for the price - usually takes one further.

Not sure about everyone else - but I WILL pay for quality - everytime.

Just ask Spectrasonics or some other players out there who insist on pay to play. Yes - Spectra is no where near as tricked out as NI is in the overall "inventory" area - but today is a telling reminder that cheaper is not always better.

VP

[epiphaneia]

There are many reasons for the hard times of the music production software industry:
1.) Oversaturated markets. A lot of companies are making mostly the same or similar products.

I´m all for healthy competition, but I always wondered whether there´s really a sustainable market for the 56th "component-modelled 1176 plugin, but this one is really good, trust me bro".

The sample library market seems headed in the same direction. I have a lot of Maschine expansions due to owning Komplete. I tried to go over them cursorily, but honestly - after the 250th hip hop kit (variations of maybe 8-10 different styles), I gave up. And I really can´t imagine that anyone who owns 49 Maschine hip hop expansions feels the need to buy a 50th.

This issue comes right *on top* of the "suno problem" - there´s still a market for good plugins and sounds even if it is bound to decline, but simply pumping out more GB of stuff many people already own in several variations won´t cut it.

Kontakt will survive in one form or another, no matter what happens to NI, because it´s "too big to fail", but I had just decided to upgrade to Absynth 6, and am reconsidering now, because I´d guess this is an image product rather than an EBIT product and therefore in danger.

[mabian]

What does that download page mean, I don't get it. Ok, you can now download all registered products out of Native Access 2. But you can't use them until you use Native Access 2 to activate them. Is this a first step towards something else?
Or has this page ever existed and it was simply a well kept secret?

- Mario

[sellyoursoul]

I was thinking that too but then heard some demos of new instruments like the Diamond elec piano and the new Session Percussionist. Both I found fantastic. All of the Session instruments are excellent. As still Abbey Roads drums etc. But a lot is fluff.

So how much are home music makers using AI over their plugins today?

Diamond is pretty mid to my ears. If someone wants something Rhodes like but not really Rhodes, sure. But I just don't find it's sound appealing.

Session Percussionist seems okay, but a Session Drummer would have been much more useful and popular, which should have been very obvious to NI.

Abbey Road Drums sound nice. But like functionality of many other drum samplers, they they aren't equipped to provide a means for someone who doesn't play drums to easily put together drums parts for their music (Session Drummer? Hello), and they aren't equipped with MIDI input processing for setting them up to be played well. They're really just a set of sounds to maybe be triggered by MIDI loops, after you find some loops, possibly having to remap them, deal with sorting through them for use with your current piece of music, and editing to better fit your music, or to be used as a set of sounds for playing crudely from a controller. A sampled drum kit for playing should provide a good velocity tool per articulation for getting the response dialed in and a tool for dialing in hi-hat control from a keyboard, pads, or e-drums hi-hat controller. Of course, these issues aren't unique to Abbey Road Drums.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

What does that download page mean, I don't get it. Ok, you can now download all registered products out of Native Access 2. But you can't use them until you use Native Access 2 to activate them. Is this a first step towards something else? Or has this page ever existed and it was simply a well kept secret?

It hasn't been well communicated.

And no - these are not registered or active.

They are just installers of ALL your purchased products. Without Native Access tho - that is all they will ever be.

VP

[apoclypse]

I think the major reason behind Native Instruments’ decline is a misplaced product focus.

Instead of listening to long-standing user demand for meaningful updates to core products like Massive (the original), FM8, Reaktor, Kore, or investing in genuinely new and innovative software, the strategy seems to have leaned heavily in another direction. Sure, we finally got Absynth 6, but the overall reception has been quite lukewarm.

Kontakt has become the cash cow, with most new releases being simplified sound libraries built on the same underlying concept. Small variations, minimal differentiation, repeated over and over again.

That approach may generate short-term revenue, but it comes at the cost of innovation, customer enthusiasm, and long-term trust.

Innovation isn’t about releasing more products. It’s about building the ones users are actually asking for.

I'm quite surprised that this didn't happen to Reason Studios or inMusic Brands before Native Instruments, though. Waves Audio should probably be worried as well. The market is simply too saturated.

Pretty much this. They had so much tech debt with their plugins and their framework they basically did nothing for years while they tried sorting that out. NI has always been one of the slowest movers in the industry mostly because by the time they actually have to move the developers of the products they sell have probably left already.

[ffx]

Maybe they could at least publish the driver sources of Kontrol and machine series? Ah no, these are capitalists until death, right?

[Sascha Franck]

Apple will buy them for $1 and half a curly wurly and then bundle it all with logic. Be like Alchemy all over again...

That'd be absolutely horrible. Them aquiring Emagic was the worst thing that ever happened to Logic already. And I'm saying that as a Logic user.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Pretty much this. They had so much tech debt with their plugins and their framework they basically did nothing for years while they tried sorting that out. NI has always been one of the slowest movers in the industry mostly because by the time they actually have to move the developers of the products they sell have probably left already.

100% this. Loss of focus. Loss of irreplaceable talent (Reaktor anyone?) and a relentless (but reckless) capacity to expand while delivering the same empty crap into those spaces.

The biggest one for me - is like Microsoft these days - a complete middle finger to the crew that got you here in the first place.

Leaving power users twiddling their thumbs using the same old tired 20 year old code (Kontakt 5,6,7 and year after year, decade after decade with minor (if not inconsquential moves) at best.

In short - no excitement. No reason to stick around.

VP