Rick Rubin on AI (& now Graeme Revell, too)

[BONES]

Why is it a misery? The more good music there is in the world, the better. I love the stuff we're getting from AI, my world would be a much poorer place without it.

[CinningBao]

Because, despite your mission to anger people and rise up against the crappy systems etc, and despite your love of the output from these tools, I just think the world would be a better palce if people actually did things themselves, ESPECIALLY art things. But we aren't going to agree on that.

So you do you and be happy with it. But stop telling other people how right you are. And stop thinking you referencing other people gives your opinion weight. There are opinioins about this stuff on both sides of the argument, neither side is 'perfectly right', and that's the beauty of this madness. I think you're mad for thinking your creative output is improved by doing it the way you're doing it. And I'm well within my rights as a fellow human to think that.

Good luck with your album

[revvy]

Nm

[BONES]

I just think the world would be a better palce if people actually did things themselves, ESPECIALLY art things.

So you drive a manual car, do all your own route planning, you wash your dishes in the sink and do all your maths in your head (or on paper), do you? Or is this simply another instance of drawing an arbitrary line that makes no rational sense whatsoever? (BTW, those are all thing I do.)

But we aren't going to agree on that.

Not if there is no logic or reasoning behind it.

But stop telling other people how right you are.

I'm simply presenting the facts, it's hard not to be right when you're doing that. Which is to say that you can say you don't like it, maybe because getting any useful results form it is beyond your meagre capabilities (as it is mine), but you can't say that there is anything wrong with it, because there simply isn't. It's just another tool in a creative artist's toolbox that is perfectly able to realise an artist's vision and create music that people want to listen to.

One day, probably soon, you will hear a song or a piece of music that you find you really like, only to discover that it was made using AI. It's just a matter of time.

There are opinioins about this stuff on both sides of the argument

The difference is that the opinions on my side of the argument are, by and large, far better informed opinions. OTOH, the other side is largely based on ignorance, bias and sheer bloody-mindedness, which tends to make them somewhat worthless, don't you think? Even guys like Rick Beato get it. He's not necessarily happy about it but he gets it. He may even be slightly appalled by it all but he's able to see past his personal bias and have a bit of objectivity about the situation.

I think you're mad for thinking your creative output is improved by doing it the way you're doing it. And I'm well within my rights as a fellow human to think that.

Sure but that doesn't make you any less wrong about it. I am the only person in the universe who can make that sort of call on my creative output because I am the only one who can know whether one thing or another is closer to my artistic goals. That's just the way it works.

[Michael L]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtick

“ Shtick may refer to an adopted persona, usually for comedy performances, that is maintained consistently (though not necessarily exclusively) across the performer's career…. In common usage, the word shtick has also come to mean any talent, style, habit, or other eccentricity for which a person is particularly well-known, even if not intended for comedic purposes. For example, a person who is known locally for an ability to eat dozens of hot dogs quickly might say that it was his shtick.“

[KBSoundSmith]

I don't know why people get upset about AI -- musicians already weren't getting paid for what they did if they could get work at all, so now they can continue not getting paid for the nothing they'll be producing later.

[VOODOO U]

I don't know why people get upset about AI -- musicians already weren't getting paid for what they did if they could get work at all, so now they can continue not getting paid for the nothing they'll be producing later.

There were cases where songs were made from sampling other artists work and those artists didn't get paid but i don't recall there being a whole big hissy fit over samplers or sampling in general.
With that being said, i feel the thing that really gets most upset about A.I. is that there are people just doing prompts to make songs. There's no musicianship involved and to make matters worse A.I. can produce a high volume of material in a short span. It's a threat to the human musician.
Those who bitch and moan about artists not getting paid, I d put money down that those whiners have downloaded songs before without paying. Maybe once or twice or maybe even a hundred times.
So no.....I'm not buying this "artists not getting paid" as an argument against A.I.
It's more of a personal threat.
And it's a threat only to those who don't use it to their advantage.

[v4p0r]

I've tried an AI service (one that came up when googling for Suno) and told it to make happy game music, and the result included singing. So I gave up because I suspected that it will require too much prompt text to go on. Also, that song tried to have lyrics about games? I forgot, I didn't listen to much of it. And this time it was not smeared transients but some "frequency region" effect that I didn't like. The song started with some Ukulele that was nothing like an Ukulele because the initial body tones on notes, I mean half a second of some sound of the corpus of the Ukulele on each strum was missing, sorry for my laymen's terms. It sounded somewhat like if you had a high pass filter where it should not be. I guess they really use no samples which I think might be bad for the sound. I kind of think in the end most things get as good as the energy and time you had, no matter what tools you use. I'll stick to what I know.
Also, vibe coding is good because it produces so bad code for complex issues that you go on being motivated, because you can't ever rely on it. This psychological thing is now their advertisement, calling the state you were in "procrastination", when in fact it was actually AI that made you question your work flow choices.
I kind of gave up on the whole AI stuff, but I do use it frequently for generating boilerplate code.

[ghettosynth]

I've tried an AI service (one that came up when googling for Suno) and told it to make happy game music, and the result included singing. So I gave up because I suspected that it will require too much prompt text to go on.

instrumental happy game music. Add the phrase 8 bit for a classic nintendo style sound.

To be frank, this is a perfect example of the hype living in your mind more than it is in reality. If you don't even want to put a minimal amount of effort into the process, you ought not be surprised that you get something out that you don't like. BTW: Here's a "pro" tip. Explain to an LLM what you are trying to do and ask it for the prompt to give to the music AI, e.g., Suno.

[KBSoundSmith]

I don't know why people get upset about AI -- musicians already weren't getting paid for what they did if they could get work at all, so now they can continue not getting paid for the nothing they'll be producing later.

There were cases where songs were made from sampling other artists work and those artists didn't get paid but i don't recall there being a whole big hissy fit over samplers or sampling in general.
With that being said, i feel the thing that really gets most upset about A.I. is that there are people just doing prompts to make songs. There's no musicianship involved and to make matters worse A.I. can produce a high volume of material in a short span. It's a threat to the human musician.
Those who bitch and moan about artists not getting paid, I d put money down that those whiners have downloaded songs before without paying. Maybe once or twice or maybe even a hundred times.
So no.....I'm not buying this "artists not getting paid" as an argument against A.I.
It's more of a personal threat.
And it's a threat only to those who don't use it to their advantage.

I'm not concerned about the money, nor should others be. Even prior to AI, there was already an impossible amount of music being uploaded daily. People's bandwidth for the volume of content of every type was already being pressed to the seams and people's filters for what they aren't interested in had aleady grown sharp as a result. AI generation simply increases the amount of garbage people try to filter out.

As for musicianship, that died a long time ago -- forget about sample packs and song creation kits, music theory/chord plugins, etc? Most people do not, have not, and never will care about musicianship, AI is just the latest tool they can abuse for the same non-musical goals (fame, wealth, attraction of the opposite sex, justification for drug abuse, being part of a tribe to justify a pet vice, etc etc). It would be nice if people took pride in doing work, but they don't and would rather have a slave, human or AI, do it for them while they benefit. Music is just the means by which they can get the thing they actually want.

An actual artist shouldn't feel threatened -- they're against impossible odds with or without AI. Enjoy the work, take pride in it, use whatever tool helps you do it (yes, including AI, perfectly valid applications) and be content whether or not you ever get recognition, money, etc. An artist is going to make art whether there is competition or not.

I think people worried about the volume of crap getting made are barking up the wrong tree, whether it's made by other people or AI.

[v4p0r]

If you don't even want to put a minimal amount of effort into the process, you ought not be surprised that you get something out that you don't like.

That is true.
It's just the fear of subtractive prompts (not this, not his, not this..) that frustrated me in other tasks. So, yes, Suno might be very well suited. But now I have invested in music gear and software anyway, so I'm naturally rigid to change much. And I'm used to building up things in a certain way. I actually thought about generating midi data with AI rather than going the "full signal way". And I wish I could have better quantization, as a generalization of groove/strumming templates so to speak. So, I'm just interested too differently in the AI topics. I will not criticise Suno (don't even know if it was, the website was too clustered for me %).

[jancivil]

Jesus fvck what a waste of time.

[VOODOO U]

Most people do not, have not, and never will care about musicianship,

I'm one of them. I feel musicianship involves too much crap that interferes with the spirit of a song. In other words, musicianship gets more involved with the science behind music rather than just feeling and going with what gets one high off the song. The latter is what it's all about otherwise it's like studying the plant and never smoking it.

AI is just the latest tool they can abuse for the same non-musical goals

So? What does that have to do with you? It shouldn't stop you from doing your own musical whatever it is that you want to do.

It would be nice if people took pride in doing work, but they don't and would rather have a slave, human or AI, do it for them while they benefit.

Well YEAH. Who in hell wants to "work"??? If you're not having fun and playing then you'll just stress yourself out to a slow death. Taking pride in working is insane. That doesn't mean avoid responsibility. It's the idea of finding the fun in the work because then it's no longer work, it's play. The more i get involved with A.I. (and it's been barely 2 weeks) the more i realize what a waste of time it is doing all the standard musician things.
Buy all this f**king gear, have to tune this, tune that, buy strings, string the guitars, the bass, all the goddamn cables everywhere, upkeep with this upkeep with that make sure X works with Y plug this in unplug that on and on and on it's all pure f**k. It's WORK.
My hope is that A.I. gets good to where it takes care of all the variety of setups to produce an infinite amount of sounds. This and allow every nuance of song structure to be prompted so that the only instrument i need to play is the qwerty keyboard along with keeping my production chops up to par.

Music is just the means by which they can get the thing they actually want.

Just like any other job.

An artist is going to make art whether there is competition or not.

An artist *with passion* is going to make art in some way shape or form no matter what. There's a lot of musicians out there and not enough with passion. It's why practically everything out there is so bland.

[VOODOO U]

It's just the fear of subtractive prompts (not this, not his, not this..) that frustrated me in other tasks.

I was under the impression that A.I. does not understand negatives that use "not".
I've just been focusing on what i *do* want first and formost avoiding time wasted on what i don't want. If i do need to stress something with a negative i just prompt "No X".

[ghettosynth]

And it's a threat only to those who don't use it to their advantage.

It's really not quite the threat that people think that it is. Certainly not the vast majority people using Suno and the like.

https://www.musicful.ai/news/ai-music-statistics/

According to Semrush, Suno.ai attracts 46.9 million monthly visits, a stunning leap from zero at its March 2024 launch. Within just 18 months, it has become one of the most-visited creative-AI platforms globally, reflecting high user retention and continuous product improvement.

This is not predominately people using the platform to create music to distribute widely to others. A good chunk of this use is people using it as a songwriting aid, but a good chunk is people using it to create one-off ditties to share with friends or for there own amusement. These users often congregate in social media, e.g., Suno's discord to share information and remix each other's songs.

I had nobook LM research this question and it found some 35 sources. I asked it specific questions about the categories of users and the proportion of users in each category. Here is a simple infographic with the results. If people are interested I can have it write a report as well as generate a video and I will post them together on youtube.



The big takeaway here is that nearly 90% of users using the platform are just having fun creating personalized music that is not intended for wider distribution, or, in effect will never meaningfully compete with any serious amateur music. Maybe some of those are hopefuls, not unlike how many Americans think that they are going to be a billionaire some day, but the experience of engaging on the platform and on social media IS the point.

There is outsized fraud that is created by a tiny percentage of users trying to skim money from the pool. Now, this is an uphill battle for many of you because, it is true that the industry does not want to ban this per se because they want to engage in similar practices, just with a slightly different spin. However, it's very few people. See notes below.

But as far as people like Bones using music, or the fun crap that I post for yucks, that's not replacing anything that anyone here is doing, or that anyone serious about being a performance artist is doing. They are having fun with how easy AI makes it, just like most of you had more fun once you had access to romplers and DAWs. If your music is on streaming and nobody is listening, that's likely not because of your music quality, per se, it's because you don't know how to sell your shit. Even everybody's favorite indie music lawyer agrees with this. Get off your ass and go sell your shit if you want people to care about your music.



If you don't already have fans for your music, the problem isn't AI, it's you.

All that said, for many young people, the average age of users on Suno is 25-34 (predominately male), that individuality, or a personalized song is going to mean more than your message. They are going to be way more excited about a silly track that captures a moment in their lives than your attempts to capture the zeitgeist.

There are quite a few people creating music for their own purposes, e.g., youtube videos, to avoid copyright issues. There is also the use of music in some games. Some of the details are in the note below.

This is the note that NotbookLM generated after it found the 35 sources based on my question regarding the distribution of distribution of AI music.

Based on the sources, the distribution of AI music distribution can be categorized into four distinct segments based on user intent: casual/social creation (hobbyists), functional utility (tools), commercial aspiration (aspiring stars), and fraudulent arbitrage.
1. Casual and Social Creation (Hobbyists and Peer-Sharing)
A substantial portion of AI music generation remains within private or semi-private ecosystems, never reaching commercial streaming platforms (DSPs) like Spotify or Apple Music.
• Volume of Generation vs. Distribution: While platforms like Udio report generating millions of tracks per week, only about 50,000 AI tracks are delivered daily to DSPs like Deezer. This discrepancy indicates that the vast majority of AI-generated music is created for personal amusement, experimentation, or private sharing rather than commercial release.
• User Behavior: Data from Musicful reveals that 87.9% of creators prefer "Lyrics Mode," suggesting users treat AI as a collaborative songwriting partner or a tool for personal expression rather than strictly for audio production.
• Social Hubs: Much of this activity occurs in community environments. For example, Suno’s Discord server has over 403,000 members, described as being "like a busy coffee shop" where users share creations, generate "spicy mémés," and engage in peer-to-peer feedback rather than global distribution.
• Demographics: Beginners are significantly more likely to use AI song generators than professionals. A LANDR study found that 51% of beginner music makers use song generators, compared to only 25% of professionals.
2. Aspiring "Music Stars" (Commercial Intent)
This segment consists of users attempting to use AI to bypass traditional production barriers and achieve commercial success.
• Commercial Success Cases: There are isolated instances of high-volume success. The AI artist "Xania Monet" garnered approximately 125 million streams globally in 2025, securing a record deal with Hallwood Media.
• Barriers to Entry: Many aspiring creators face logistical hurdles in distributing AI music to major DSPs due to copyright certification requirements. Consequently, creators often upload high volumes to open platforms; for instance, one creator uploaded over 600 tracks to SoundCloud in a single year, achieving 183,000 total plays.
• Consumer Rejection: Despite the aspirations of these creators, commercial consumption remains low. 88% of all tracks (AI and human) on streaming services received 1,000 or fewer streams in 2025, and nearly half received zero to ten streams. Furthermore, 52% of listeners believe AI-generated songs should be excluded from charts.
3. Functional Utility (Replacement for Other Tools)
A specific subset of users utilizes AI music generation as a functional replacement for hiring composers or buying stock assets for specific, non-chart-topping purposes.
• Gaming and TTRPGs: AI is used to generate background music for Tabletop Role-Playing Games (TTRPGs) and indie video games. Systems like Bardo Composer generate music based on player speech and emotion for small groups (e.g., Dungeons & Dragons campaigns). Surveys indicate 60.4% of gamers find procedurally generated challenges and rewards acceptable, creating a niche for adaptive AI music that serves a functional gameplay role rather than a standalone listening experience.
• Content Creation: Creators use AI to generate royalty-free soundtracks for social media video content (TikTok, YouTube) to avoid licensing issues and costs.
4. Financial Arbitrage (Fraudulent Distribution)
A significant volume of the "commercial" distribution is driven not by aspiring artists, but by actors using AI for financial fraud.
• Volume: By November 2025, fully AI-generated tracks accounted for 34% of all daily uploads to Deezer (approx. 50,000 tracks/day).
• Intent: The primary motivation for these uploads is often fraudulent. Deezer detected that up to 70% of streams for fully AI-generated tracks were fraudulent (bot-driven).
• Revenue Extraction: This activity is designed to skim royalties from the shared pool. One case involved a musician named Michael Smith who used AI to generate hundreds of thousands of songs and used bots to stream them, allegedly extracting over $10 million in royalty payments.
In summary, while the volume of files delivered to streaming services suggests a massive wave of aspiring AI musicians, the data indicates that the majority of generation happens for fun/private use (the gap between millions generated vs. 50k uploaded), while a significant portion of the actual commercial uploads is driven by fraudulent arbitrage rather than genuine artistic aspiration.