Plugin idea

[NAD]

In the new Zebra 3 (currently in public beta) there's the "Hypercalibrate" intonation mode in the pitches tab. According to the manual: "3-note chords are analysed and retuned to minimize beating". I've played around with it a bit but have yet to find any practical application. On a pure saw it sounds... unsettling.

[lobanov]

Good people of this forum, thank you so much for your help, you are good people here that helped this dumbass. I am grateful to everybody, unfortunately my ideia is text book read.me : ) It was an idea i had since childhood and i searched for it so baddly and i failed to notice that was already made. I honestly thought it was a new thing and i am sorry i tried for you guys to believe me, now i can never come up with a plugin ever again even if i have the best idea of all time : ) . I will let you guys keep making those awesome plugins and i will try to play them the best i can. : ) Thank you all again

Why are you apologizing? Are we here to give each other hints and pointers?

[camsr]

Note that Hermode Tuning has been widely adopted in a bunch of products (Logic, Waldorf and Access synths), but it remains a niche feature that only few ever use. The thing is, having a way to achieve pure-ish tuning on normally equal temperament tuned instruments can actually sound quite nasty, for example with synth sounds. You often want some detuning and beating (see hypersaw, unison, chorus). Tuning all instruments purely does not automatically improve the music, let alone revolutionize it.

It's one of those things that sound like a big deal first, but seem pretty small after contact with reality.

It's because of synthesizers obviously. The harmonics made by raw waveforms are truly putrid! Do you think cavemen made music with "sawtooths" from animals they hunted? Subtractive synthesis is defined to use filters to cut the crud and shape the sound! Real, relished, instruments have highly refined harmonic patterns, and even those harmonics are not "on-the-grid" like synths are. Tuning an instrument to the fundamental tone is often wrong.

[nix808]

to convert Hermode with midi,
do you need MIDI 2?
- pitch is an integer isn't it(in midi1)?

edit-> I realize now you use pitch bend,
but the range is impossible to set in MIDI 1
-so still problematic

It doesn't seem trivial to do this to MIDI
It's better implemented in the instrument

[Music Engineer]

I think, implementing dynamic retuning algorithms in a MIDI plugin would require some sort of polyphonic (i.e. per note) detuning / pitch-bending message, so it would require MIDI 2.0. The regular old pitchbend of MIDI 1.0 affects all notes simultaneously, so it is of no use in a scenario where we want to retune the relative pitches within a chord. Implementing it in a software instrument itself is of course always possible, but it would mean a lot of duplication of effort because each instrument maker would have to implement it anew. That's rather inefficient. Everyone would have to reinvent the wheel. It would make much more sense to have it implemented once and for all as MIDI plugin if such a thing is possible.

[nix808]

ta
Shred of Light,
We think that it would be best to do this in the newish MIDI 2 standard.
It actually can't be done in MIDI 1 likely
-yeah right, pitch bend isn't polyphonic

Flowstone doesn't support MIDI 2 yet,
somewhat interested to do it otherwise.
You can't do this in MIDI in Flowstone atm.
It can be done as stream dsp np to an instrument

[ShredofLight]

I think, implementing dynamic retuning algorithms in a MIDI plugin would require some sort of polyphonic (i.e. per note) detuning / pitch-bending message, so it would require MIDI 2.0. The regular old pitchbend of MIDI 1.0 affects all notes simultaneously, so it is of no use in a scenario where we want to retune the relative pitches within a chord. Implementing it in a software instrument itself is of course always possible, but it would mean a lot of duplication of effort because each instrument maker would have to implement it anew. That's rather inefficient. Everyone would have to reinvent the wheel. It would make much more sense to have it implemented once and for all as MIDI plugin if such a thing is possible.

we would be using multichannel to address that, but yeah nevermind this plugin now, The only use i could see for it now would be to try to make dynamic tunning work.

[ShredofLight]

ta
Shred of Light,
We think that it would be best to do this in the newish MIDI 2 standard.
It actually can't be done in MIDI 1 likely
-yeah right, pitch bend isn't polyphonic

Flowstone doesn't support MIDI 2 yet,
somewhat interested to do it otherwise.
You can't do this in MIDI in Flowstone atm.
It can be done as stream dsp np to an instrument

Thank you for the support man. It's ok there is no point on making this plugin now anyway. for polyphonic we would be using multichannel in midi 1.

[ShredofLight]

to convert Hermode with midi,
do you need MIDI 2?
- pitch is an integer isn't it(in midi1)?

edit-> I realize now you use pitch bend,
but the range is impossible to set in MIDI 1
-so still problematic

It doesn't seem trivial to do this to MIDI
It's better implemented in the instrument

You send a correspondent pitch bend right after the note. the pitch bend range is enough to make the needed pitch alterations. like the scala software does it.

[nix808]

no probs, ur welcome

Using multichannel is difficult hey,
afaic think
good idea though!
-difficult concept,
how does it go?

it's interesting to me, this thread and Hermode
-the theoretical implementation too

I had thought of using 24 divisions '24 tone equal temperament in an octave' years ago,
maybe that could be good for kicks

[ghettosynth]

ta
Shred of Light,
We think that it would be best to do this in the newish MIDI 2 standard.
It actually can't be done in MIDI 1 likely
-yeah right, pitch bend isn't polyphonic

Flowstone doesn't support MIDI 2 yet,
somewhat interested to do it otherwise.
You can't do this in MIDI in Flowstone atm.
It can be done as stream dsp np to an instrument

Thank you for the support man. It's ok there is no point on making this plugin now anyway. for polyphonic we would be using multichannel in midi 1.

You know, I gave you some shit because you misused this forum in the classic way. However, people are engaging with you earnestly. If you truly don't think that there's any point of building it, then why not talk about it? The reason that you should talk about it is that 1) you had an idea and a clear interest and skill in music so you CAN contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way, 2) Just getting the idea down in detail might lead to a different plugin that's every so slightly different (potentially open source), 3) Even if it doesn't, you've helped to promote a long-lived discussion on KVR that serves as a reference for people thinking in these terms, and finally, 4) The discussion might just lead you to a place where you leverage your experience and realize, in that moment, that there is a slightly different idea that you could leverage and turn into a business!

It's at that point where you might want a fantastic video like the one that I created. You're welcome.

[ShredofLight]

no probs, ur welcome

Using multichannel is difficult hey,
afaic think
good idea though!
-difficult concept,
how does it go?

it's interesting to me, this thread and Hermode
-the theoretical implementation too

I had thought of using 24 divisions tet in an octave years ago,
maybe that could be good for kicks, a curious idea

Thanks man .You might want to chech out the Scala software from the Fokker foundation ( great name) .

[ShredofLight]

ta
Shred of Light,
We think that it would be best to do this in the newish MIDI 2 standard.
It actually can't be done in MIDI 1 likely
-yeah right, pitch bend isn't polyphonic

Flowstone doesn't support MIDI 2 yet,
somewhat interested to do it otherwise.
You can't do this in MIDI in Flowstone atm.
It can be done as stream dsp np to an instrument

Thank you for the support man. It's ok there is no point on making this plugin now anyway. for polyphonic we would be using multichannel in midi 1.

You know, I gave you some shit because you misused this forum in the classic way. However, people are engaging with you earnestly. If you truly don't think that there's any point of building it, then why not talk about it? The reason that you should talk about it is that 1) you had an idea and a clear interest and skill in music so you CAN contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way, 2) Just getting the idea down in detail might lead to a different plugin that's every so slightly different, 3) Even if it doesn't, you've helped to promote a long-lived discussion on KVR that serves as a reference for people thinking in these terms, and finally, 4) The discussion might just lead you to a place where you leverage your experience and realize, in that moment, that there is a slightly different idea that you could leverage and turn into a business!

It's at that point where you might want a fantastic video like the one that I created. You're welcome.

Thanks man for the encouragement. I am starting to think you sell videos

[ShredofLight]

I am as dumbfounded as my idea already exists as i am that it isn't well accepted as i always thought of it as the natural evolution of well temperament .And after studying the current offers i think the problem is the way they have implemented dynamic tunning. I always thought of it like the marriage of well temperament and the other temperaments with especific rules like the bass is always well tempered.

[Music Engineer]

What do you mean by "for polyphonic we would be using multichannel" and "You send a correspondent pitch bend right after the note". Your MIDI plugin could encode the tuning information by abusing (cough...reinterpreting ) the existing MIDI 1.0 standard in any which way - but no existing instrument would understand such a nonstandard encoding. Are you suggesting to lobby the plugin instrument makers to adopt your new, nonstandard encoding of MIDI data?