If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[Chicken Drummy]

@jamcat

"I would rather use an AI prompt than a loop."

Eh, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with you there. Using a loop doesn't automatically mean simply plonking it down on a DAW track and then making it into a WAV, FLAC, or MP3 of it. I often use loops but I slice em up, repitch em, reverse em, run em through FX, add on plenty of other samples and synths and ambient beds, maybe record some guitar licks or my own vox, or maybe collab with my friend who has the voice of an indie rock angel...

Point is, using loops doesn't necessarily mean having no creative input in the final track. On the contrary, typing out "Ambient goth track with a bombastic beat and booming bassline with some whispered vocals" is never going to be creative and hands-on no matter how many times one does it or however many extra words (instructions) one adds to the AI prompt.

[jamcat]

It's not coming from your imagination, it's coming from mixing other people's work. There is no way it's original.

That's a profound misunderstanding of what AI actually does. It doesn't simply take pieces of stuff, chop it up, and glue it back together. It models human learning, and uses information exactly the way your brain does. Everything you write comes from language or music patterns that you've learned through exposure. AI traning works exactly the same way.

Loops are not used solely alone, they're usually mixed with original work.

Why wouldn't AI generated tracks also be mixed with original work?

I haven't used any AI so far, but the way I would, would be something like I want a string arrangement or a choir in a chorus. What I have done thus far, is write a part following the chord progression using the rules of 18th century 4-part harmony and voice leading. You could pretty much write it blind. As long as you follow the rules of counterpoint and don't use any bum notes, it's going to sound legit. The actual work is more like solving a Sudoku than painting an imaginative fantasy scene. So when you write the part out, you can either hire an orchestra or choir, which realistically isn't going to happen, or you can build it with samples or physically modeled instruments. I use East West Symphonic Choirs and Hollywood Choirs and try to eek out some Votox that sounds reasonably like the lyrics I want for my choir parts, and SWAM virtual instruments for orchestral players. But is this going to sound more realistic than having AI generate the parts? Of course not. It is practically a guaranteed certainty that the AI generated choir or orchestra is going to sound more realistic than a sample collage or physically modeled synthesized performance. So my primary concern is going to be what gives me the best end result which sounds closest to the idealized form of the song I'm hearing in my head.

[jamcat]

@jamcat

"I would rather use an AI prompt than a loop."

Eh, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with you there. Using a loop doesn't automatically mean simply plonking it down on a DAW track and then making it into a WAV, FLAC, or MP3 of it. I often use loops but I slice em up, repitch em, reverse em, run em through FX, add on plenty of other samples and synths and ambient beds, maybe record some guitar licks or my own vox, or maybe collab with my friend who has the voice of an indie rock angel...

Point is, using loops doesn't necessarily mean having no creative input in the final track. On the contrary, typing out "Ambient goth track with a bombastic beat and booming bassline with some whispered vocals" is never going to be creative and hands-on no matter how many times one does it or however many extra words (instructions) one adds to the AI prompt.

No you've just accepted the use of loops as acceptable because of cultural norms within your chosen genre. But to me, using loops is the highest offense and sin against god and man a "musician" could ever commit.

So I am going to have to agree to disagree, as well.

But when I finally do try using AI to generate music, I am 100% going to steal your prompt "Ambient goth track with a bombastic beat and booming bassline with some whispered vocals."

[Chicken Drummy]

@jamcat

"But when I finally do try using AI to generate music, I am 100% going to steal your prompt "Ambient goth track with a bombastic beat and booming bassline with some whispered vocals." "



Well then you'll be exactly like AI itself, stealing others' good ideas and using them as your own without giving proper credit.

[jamcat]

Do you give credit to every song you've ever listened to and every book you've ever read? Because they have influenced what you create in the same way that AI is trained. Or do you at least given credit to the creators of the loops and samples that you use?

[Examigan]

@jamcat:
"...uses information exactly the way your brain does."

AI can't.

[mi-os]

What is it with you people and you're doom and gloom?

Yeah, it's terrible. Just look at the NI thread. It seems that too many people act based on emotions rather than rational considerations.

[IvyBirds]

...

Point is, using loops doesn't necessarily mean having no creative input in the final track. On the contrary, typing out "Ambient goth track with a bombastic beat and booming bassline with some whispered vocals" is never going to be creative and hands-on no matter how many times one does it or however many extra words (instructions) one adds to the AI prompt.

Point is using AI doesn't necessarily mean doing what you suggest either. Just like with loops AI can generate entire songs with no musical abilities or talent, or can be a very cool tool that artists can use to do cool stuff with

Your argument rings hollow because you want to excuse away the extreme use of loops, while only highlighting the extreme use of AI

The real answer lies in the middle for both

If AI is a threat to your music, you music sucks and AI is just an excuse

I have the pleasure of playing with my band tonight. Living breathing musicians playing instruments will always have a draw, something AI never will be able to pull off

Having said that I absolutely would go to see a sound and light show with robots on stage all powered by AI.

AI is an exciting new production tool, how people use it is not my concern.

[Examigan]

What is it with you people and you're doom and gloom?

Yeah, it's terrible. Just look at the NI thread. It seems that too many people act based on emotions rather than rational considerations.

AI doesn't have emotion.

[mi-os]

What is it with you people and you're doom and gloom?

Yeah, it's terrible. Just look at the NI thread. It seems that too many people act based on emotions rather than rational considerations.

AI doesn't have emotion.

I'm talking about people, not AI.

[Examigan]

What is it with you people and you're doom and gloom?

Yeah, it's terrible. Just look at the NI thread. It seems that too many people act based on emotions rather than rational considerations.

AI doesn't have emotion.

I'm talking about people, not AI.

Oops sorry, I jumped ahead a step…

But my statement still makes sense.

[Funky40]

I kind of wish KvR had a subform specifically for discussing AI, so I could ignore it and we could talk about instruments and effects and production etc. in these threads instead


My prediction:

ok, i openend a new thread as a feature request incl. a poll

viewtopic.php?t=627574

[pough]

The only question I have is: will AI be able to tell the appropriate forum when making posts on KVR? It would have to have good data to train on, so not likely.

[Funky40]

This topic lacks in that sense, that these days the term "music making" is taken as "hammering tracks out". But that´s not what the term means.


We will continue to make music.
Instruments will continue to exist.


I personally switched over to a full 100% ITB-only setup vs. everything keyboard- playing.
Any form of sound. Assoon i play it by hand using a keyboard of some sort, do i use plugins loaded in a live-play host. This IS an upcoming thing.
There is always place for some plugin market........

[zerocrossing]

I'm currently using Synthesizer V to replace my crappy vocals in a song that I wrote in my 20s that I finally decided to record properly.

I also sang all through my shower today, as I do most days. These two things are unrelated, but to be honest, if someone wanted to collaborate with me and sing my songs, I'd be thrilled. I just can't hit the notes that I write, but that is never going to stop me from singing, as annoying as it is.