Native Instruments file for insolvency...

[Sascha Franck]

nah man....then you don't understand what ultra is doing nor watched those videos...what tomafon and wavemapper do is the same thing with similar workflows...making wavetables from samples by waveform section deterministically and key/velocity mapping the resynthesized results...

And yet, there's not one example even getting close to the Ultra Audio examples.

ur the perfect candidate for marketing and GAS...good luck

You couldn't be further off, seriously.

[machinesworking]

A solid summary of what seems to have happened at VI-Control:

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... st-5830863

Well, dunno. To me, it's still NI's fault to a large degree. I mean, why would they sell out to Francisco Partners in the first place, if they were doing well?

Fact is, they actually weren't, at least not really.

In 2017, NI received a financial injection of €50.000.000 from a company named EMH Partners (located in Munich). And that they have "Partners" in their name, just as the Francisco guys, isn't just a coincidence. They're an investment company, just the same private equity thing.
And apparently that kinda huge amount of money didn't help NI, so they had to give in to FP just 4 years later. Another 4 years later and the next (apparently flopped) deal was around the corner in December.

So, no, a company going for the same stunt 3 times can't be considered healthy in my book.

The first sale could easily be the people with shares in the company wanting to sell and retire. This is why I mentioned more than one owner, you have 7 people making decisions and 4 want to sell and that's it, you're selling. IMO NI started off on the wrong foot, they wanted to be the biggest plugin company on the planet, and that's a recipe for unmitigated growth, leading to decisions like selling to PE's etc. When you want growth above all else, you set yourself up to be invested in, which leads to possible debt or at the very least expectations of rapidly rising profits.

We've seen this before with at least a half dozen companies, from Digidesign to Steinberg, Emagic, Cakewalk, Prosonus etc etc. Mostly it works out, with Cakewalk being a scary version. InMusic is an example of a company that uses PE that hasn't killed off it's brands, there are others.

Personally I don't see NI going away, I see another hopefully less predatory company stepping in at some point here. they have too much to offer, Roli almost went under a while ago and somehow managed to survive.

[digitalboytn]

The first sale could easily be the people with shares in the company wanting to sell and retire. This is why I mentioned more than one owner, you have 7 people making decisions and 4 want to sell and that's it, you're selling. IMO NI started off on the wrong foot, they wanted to be the biggest plugin company on the planet, and that's a recipe for unmitigated growth, leading to decisions like selling to PE's etc. When you want growth above all else, you set yourself up to be invested in, which leads to possible debt or at the very least expectations of rapidly rising profits.

We've seen this before with at least a half dozen companies, from Digidesign to Steinberg, Emagic, Cakewalk, Prosonus etc etc. Mostly it works out, with Cakewalk being a scary version. InMusic is an example of a company that uses PE that hasn't killed off it's brands, there are others.

Personally I don't see NI going away, I see another hopefully less predatory company stepping in at some point here. they have too much to offer, Roli almost went under a while ago and somehow managed to survive.

This is spot on

[Sascha Franck]

The first sale could easily be the people with shares in the company wanting to sell and retire.

Nothing like that has ever been mentioned in the press back then.

[Tone2 Synthesizers]

ok u lazy bugger lol

These are completely different from what Utrawave does. They're basically taking samples to create whatever "organic" patches out of them. Fine. I'm aware of some methods doing so.
But the Ultra Audio thing is using just a handful of instrument samples to actually extract the essence of the source instrument and builds a patch very close (apparently quite indistinguishly close at least in some situations).
The goal of the others isn't to sound like the real deal.

Icarus can do this since nearly a decade.
There is a free demo availabe on the website so you can convince yourself that it works:
https://www.tone2.com/download.html

"Resynthesis

Rebuild any sound with a SINGLE mouse-click!

Icarus comes with the most powerful and advanced re-synthesis engine on the market. Unlike competing products, it always delivers good results. With Icarus, anyone can create amazing sounds quickly and easily. Traditional resynthesis methods require in-depth knowledge of sample editing to achieve good results. It requires time-consuming pre-processing with a sample editor and precisely tuned samples. We have eliminated all of these hassles and developed completely new algorithms. Icarus' innovative wavetable resynthesis can rebuild sounds with a single mouse click! It works with almost any type of audio material and produces high-quality results. Just click the 'Re-synthesize' button, select a wav file, and Icarus will automatically create a patch that sounds like the original."

[machinesworking]

The first sale could easily be the people with shares in the company wanting to sell and retire.

Nothing like that has ever been mentioned in the press back then.

Where are the two original founders? from what I can tell neither work at NI anymore. Plus Daniel Haver stepped down right when Francisco took over. He sold most of his shares in the company to Francisco etc. I mean that's what happens when you get bought, he still has a minority share I guess, and an advisery position which isn't unusual.

[nightjar]

Personally I don't see NI going away, I see another hopefully less predatory company stepping in at some point here.

Servco

[jamcat]

The first sale could easily be the people with shares in the company wanting to sell and retire.

Nothing like that has ever been mentioned in the press back then.

Where are the two original founders? from what I can tell neither work at NI anymore. Plus Daniel Haver stepped down right when Francisco took over. He sold most of his shares in the company to Francisco etc. I mean that's what happens when you get bought, he still has a minority share I guess, and an advisery position which isn't unusual.

They were both fired in 2020. NI has been mismanaged for a very long time.

[oobesan]

These arguments are not mutually exclusive. The original sale could have been an opportunity for senior leaders who had been going at it far longer than the normal term (20 years), AND also true that NI has been managed like a whore by their PE pimp since 2021.

[jamcat]

That still sounds like you're trying to wave away Haver and Galic's culpability in the start of NI's mismanagement, which goes all the way back to when they were there, and is the reason venture capitalists had to be brought on in the first place. Both NI and iZotope's problems began before they ever teamed up. I described it back then as two shipwreck survivors desperately clinging to the same life jacket.

[Sascha Franck]

Icarus can do this since nearly a decade.
There is a free demo availabe on the website so you can convince yourself that it works:
https://www.tone2.com/download.html

"Resynthesis

Rebuild any sound with a SINGLE mouse-click!

That's great to know. I'm sure there's a YT video demonstrating that. Can you link me to one? Because I couldn't find anything suitable.

[Sascha Franck]

Where are the two original founders? from what I can tell neither work at NI anymore.

Stephan Schmitt left before the EMH Partners event already. And according to the man himself, he apparently didn't like the company being steeres by plain financial interests anymore.

[Tone2 Synthesizers]

Icarus can do this since nearly a decade.
There is a free demo availabe on the website so you can convince yourself that it works:
https://www.tone2.com/download.html

"Resynthesis

Rebuild any sound with a SINGLE mouse-click!

That's great to know. I'm sure there's a YT video demonstrating that. Can you link me to one? Because I couldn't find anything suitable.

There is a very old video for Icarus1 available. The resynthesis of Icarus3 is more advanced and also supports pitch envelopes. I will create new videos as soon as I find time.

Free demo download:
https://www.tone2.com/update/Tone2_Icarus3_PC_demo.zip
https://www.tone2.com/update/Tone2_Icarus_3.2_Mac.pkg

[db3]

Where are the two original founders? from what I can tell neither work at NI anymore.

Stephan Schmitt left before the EMH Partners event already. And according to the man himself, he apparently didn't like the company being steeres by plain financial interests anymore.

Obviously things were going wrong before founders left, but PE accelerated NI's demise.

- 2019: Workforce laid off (“One Native” restructuring) — Early signs of financial and strategic strain.
- 2020 Founders/leadership exit — Leadership instability during market disruption.
- 2021 Francisco Partners acquires majority stake — Shift from founder-led, product-driven culture to investor-driven growth.
- 2022 Aggressive expansion: Acquire iZotope, Plugin Alliance, Brainworx. New umbrella brand Soundwide launched — Integration costs and complexity rise.
- 2023 Soundwide brand abandoned; reverts to Native Instruments. Additional layoffs. Failed initiatives. Legacy products retired or deprioritised causing customer goodwill erosion.
- 2024–2025 High debt strains cash flow. Expected synergies from acquisitions fail to materialise. Proposed sale to Bridgepoint / Bain Capital Credit collapses.

[Sascha Franck]

There is a very old video for Icarus1 available. The resynthesis of Icarus3 is more advanced and also supports pitch envelopes. I will create new videos as soon as I find time.

Free demo download:
https://www.tone2.com/update/Tone2_Icarus3_PC_demo.zip
https://www.tone2.com/update/Tone2_Icarus_3.2_Mac.pkg

Thing is, you folks keep telling me it's an old hat, and yet I haven't seen one video which would impress me even just halfway as much as the Ultrawave examples.
So, either I must be missing something (and I'd be all up to learn what it is) or the Ultra Audio folks must be doing something different.