If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[jancivil]

I should note that as regards 'no friction between idea and artifact', the lubrication applied being a verbal prompt instead of realizing the idea we're already allowing a fiction to represent the reality. Unless eg., in the case of "in the style of a JS Bach piano sonata" the idea is a found motif interpolated mistakenly (a result of the machine's inability to think before it acts).

"Go find something like this and make a simulacrum" isn't a real musical idea.

[mi-os]

Saying AI is useless is like saying google is useless because you don't know how to google.

It's baffling.

This analogy does not work at all. It's also a straw man argument.

[jancivil]

It's a good example, since Suno is not writing like JS Bach which requires actual thought, it's a hodgepodge of xerox'd bits. Uncannily clever but nonetheless an example of exceeding its capacity.

[jancivil]

What I'm posing as an additional question is "What happens when AI reproduces itself to the point of flooding and saturating the Internet and automatically parsing out any human attempt to participate in it?"

You've been reading too much sci-fi. I get that people want to think about this as something real, but I'm just not here for that.

Perhaps.
But most of what we're experiencing today was first proposed by science-fiction from fifty to seventy-five years ago.
Where the dystopias went wrong was the proposal of only one happening. We had no idea they would be competing all at the same time to keep us from realizing they're the system.

The outcome of parsing out any human attempt is paranoid enough IME to relegate to the area of speculative fiction.

But mistaking copies of ideas for genuine ideas and mistaking simulacra as sentience is totally Philip K Dick territory and we ignore the warnings to our detriment at this point, to my view.

[mi-os]

Well I use google all the time. Sounds like a skill issue.

You should stop using Google. They just spread propaganda and sell all kinds of commercial crap. They suffer from multiple personality disorder, if you look at their political stance.

[mi-os]

It's a good example, since Suno is not writing like JS Bach which requires actual thought, it's a hodgepodge of xerox'd bits. Uncannily clever but nonetheless an example of exceeding its capacity.

There are things we agree on.

[IvyBirds]

Not Google.

Google is one of the largest companies in the world and makes billions of dollars in profits because untold millions find it useful, so by definition it's not useless, unless you always base your personal opinions on inaccurate information which would render your opinion useless

[coroknight]

Well I use google all the time. Sounds like a skill issue.

You should stop using Google. They just spread propaganda and sell all kinds of commercial crap. They are schizophrenic, if you look at their political stance.

That’s beside the point. I’m arguing from the perspective that truth and social/political positions are related but separate. It’s clear you’re arguing from a perspective that truth is derived from social/political positions.

I said google isn’t useless because it is not actually useless. If you don’t want to use it that’s fine, and I actually agree with you. But I’m not going to say something is useless if it’s not.

Likewise, you called AI useless, but I assure you it is not. In-fact I’d say that’s actually a harmful position because people will be blindsided if they stick their head in the sand.

If you don’t want to use AI because of some social/political/environmental reason then fine, but that’s separate.

[IvyBirds]

It's a good example, since Suno is not writing like JS Bach which requires actual thought, it's a hodgepodge of xerox'd bits. Uncannily clever but nonetheless an example of exceeding its capacity.

No one is writing like JS Bach, and the moment you think they are they have just become a derivative of his style and are doing exactly what AI does. At that point they are just making a hodgepodge of xeroxed bits by your own definition

[mi-os]

Well I use google all the time. Sounds like a skill issue.

You should stop using Google. They just spread propaganda and sell all kinds of commercial crap. They are schizophrenic, if you look at their political stance.

That’s beside the point. I’m arguing from the perspective that truth and social/political positions are related but separate. It’s clear you’re arguing from a perspective that truth is derived from social/political positions.

I said google isn’t useless because it is not actually useless. If you don’t want to use it that’s fine, and I actually agree with you. But I’m not going to say something is useless if it’s not.

Likewise, you called AI useless, but I assure you it is not. In-fact I’d say that’s actually a harmful position because people will be blindsided if they stick their head in the sand.

If you don’t want to use AI because of some social/political/environmental reason then fine, but that’s separate.

I never said Google is useless (although it mainly is nowadays). I just said you should stop using it.

[BBFG#]

Well I use google all the time. Sounds like a skill issue.

It's a trust issue. The information they put at the top is too often unreliable. And at times down right wrong.

[Grizzellda]

I am beginning to accept the fact that to have some success in music (what is it anyhow? ), that performing live will be important. AI will not be able to replace a live band that fans actually care about...wanna see, will actually pay a modest amount of money to see.

I mean, even DJ's can make a living, playing around town for heaven's sake.

DJ's!!!

[jancivil]

Well I use google all the time. Sounds like a skill issue.

the quality of this retort only shows a certain enthusiasm to toss an insult on a quite adolescent level. It addresses nothing about a preference regarding use of search engines.

Google's first job is to advertise product and direct consumers to sites to buy things. This is in the way, polluting the search.
There are certain things one might do to somewhat mitigate this (eg., specify Wikipedia) but it can be futile. I began using Perplexity when I wanted a straight answer but it appeared to get worse as time wore on. AI might land on a forum where people know what they're doing, it might decide based on prevalence a shit answer on Reddit is the best answer out there. So Perplexity begins to look more like Google the more it "learns". Note the scare quotes around learns.

[coroknight]

Well I use google all the time. Sounds like a skill issue.

the quality of this retort only shows a certain enthusiasm to toss an insult on a quite adolescent level. It addresses nothing about a preference regarding use of search engines.

Google's first job is to advertise product. There are certain things one might do to somewhat mitigate it but it can be futile. I began using Perplexity when I wanted a straight answer but it appeared to get worse as time wore on. AI might land on a forum where people know what they're doing, it might decide based on prevalence a shit answer is the best answer out there. So Perplexity begins to look more like Google the more it "learns". Note the scare quotes around learns.

The original claim was that google is useless, not a claim about preferences.

[Grizzellda]

Can you guys imagine the sort of fuss and excitement people must have had when electricity was discovered?

ELECTRICITY...

But now it is everyday life, just normal. We should just ''relax into'' this stuff, I think...

Let it unfold gradually.