The Greatest Loss If NI Disappears?

[tapper mike]

I expect good things from Fender.

[Winstontaneous]

If NI disappears, the greatest loss will be the English alphabet goes down to 24 letters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Minnow_Pea

Great book, I used to have it...
Back OT...what would the Knights Who Say "Ni" say then?

[PAK]

But honestly, I've never tapped a drum pad that was as good as Maschine pads. I've always wondered why nobody tried to copy them.

I had a very different experience from a Maschine Mikro Mk II. Possibly the worst LCD screen I’ve ever had the misfortune to lay eyes on. Bad viewing angles were one thing, and hardly untypical. But the screen was also prone to image retention! For something they were charging ~£300 for, at the time, it was pure tat.

As for the pads.. as I turned the sensitivity up, notes started to HANG. Haven’t noticed this? That’s because the Maschine software HIDES this by auto-timing out hung notes. So you’ll never know it’s doing this unless you use it as a MIDI controller!

Turning up sensitivity, along with the hangs, it was easier to notice an inconsistent response across pads. Even turning down the sensitivity, as low as I dared, some pads still had random hangs. Before returning I opened it to see if anything could be done. I assure you they’re ENTIRELY unremarkable in their construction!

I assume they can’t all be as bad, response wise, even if their software helps hide it. But it passed their quality control. Soo.. A Korg padKontrol (which was 1/3rd of the price at the time) was infinitely superior in every regard (More sensitive, more uniform in response, and no hang notes!)

[zerocrossing]

I'll miss the threads talking about how NI is going to disappear.

[bmanic]

But honestly, I've never tapped a drum pad that was as good as Maschine pads. I've always wondered why nobody tried to copy them.

I had a very different experience from a Maschine Mikro Mk II. Possibly the worst LCD screen I’ve ever had the misfortune to lay eyes on. Bad viewing angles were one thing, and hardly untypical. But the screen was also prone to image retention! For something they were charging ~£300 for, at the time, it was pure tat.

As for the pads.. as I turned the sensitivity up, notes started to HANG. Haven’t noticed this? That’s because the Maschine software HIDES this by auto-timing out hung notes. So you’ll never know it’s doing this unless you use it as a MIDI controller!

Turning up sensitivity, along with the hangs, it was easier to notice an inconsistent response across pads. Even turning down the sensitivity, as low as I dared, some pads still had random hangs. Before returning I opened it to see if anything could be done. I assure you they’re ENTIRELY unremarkable in their construction!

I assume they can’t all be as bad, response wise, even if their software helps hide it. But it passed their quality control. Soo.. A Korg padKontrol (which was 1/3rd of the price at the time) was infinitely superior in every regard (More sensitive, more uniform in response, and no hang notes!)

You definitely had a dodgy unit. I've used virtually all of the Maschine hardware (except Maschine+) since the very beginning and one thing has been consistent with the hardware, the pads have always been better than any of the competition. Much more sensitive pads and way less prone to double triggers or hung notes.

That doesn't of course dismiss the possibility of dodgy units being sold but the ratio of dodgy stuff versus good when compared to some of the competition (in my case Akai stuff that I also have extensive hands on experience with) is on a whole other level. 99% of the time Maschine pads are amazing. They do wear out, just like all other similar systems but when they work as they should, they are unbeatable. The only thing that comes close is the Push 2 and Push 3.

Especially the Maschine 3 pads (and I assume also Maschine+) are ridiculously good. Extremely sensitive and supremely reliable. And yes, I've used all of these in MIDI mode too.

I've owned Maschine 1, 2, Mini mk2, both black and white and had access to several Maschine mk3 systems over the years. Only a single one had a one dodgy pad.

Contrast that with my experience with Akai. Various MPK and MPD controllers, MPC Live (multiple units), MPC X etc.. where my experience is pretty much the opposite. Virtually ALL of them had issues with double triggers and very insensitive pads (meaning you have to hit them HARD for it to even register). The outliers were a select few units that worked very well, this includes my own MPC Live mk1 which still to this day is almost without double triggers when you hit it just right in one of the corners.

Pro tip for AKAI MPC Live users: Don't hit the pads in the center. It has less sensitivity and reliability there due to how they implemented the led light right in the middle.. hit the pads in the corners or slightly offset center and they are more reliable.

I did get to test a MPC Live mk3 a few weeks ago and that one was by far the most sensitive and reliable MPC I've ever used.. but it still wasn't on the same level as a Maschine mk3.

[PAK]

I've used virtually all of the Maschine hardware (except Maschine+) since the very beginning and one thing has been consistent with the hardware, the pads have always been better than any of the competition. Much more sensitive pads and way less prone to double triggers or hung notes.

But that’s the thing - You’re not going to experience hung notes if you use the Maschine software! It times out notes without any action required on the users part. It means the average user won’t know if they have a unit which does it! You’ll only observe what it’s actually doing if you use it as a MIDI controller, in other software, and particularly when you turn up the sensitivity..

As I said, it wasn’t the only issue.. Though the pads themselves are as low tech as it gets.. IE Rubber silicone with a conductive material. Not dissimilar to the type of thing you’d find on old DTMF telephones. Feel is subjective. But I found even the inexpensive padKontrol pads to be far better in terms of overall sensitivity and consistency..

[bmanic]

As I said, I've used them all in MIDI mode. That's actually my most used case.

Though the pads themselves are as low tech as it gets.. IE Rubber silicone with a conductive material. Not dissimilar to the type of thing you’d find on old DTMF telephones. Feel is subjective. But I found even the inexpensive padKontrol pads to be far better in terms of overall sensitivity and consistency..

You must have had a REALLY dodgy unit or even a fake of some kind..

As for the Korg padKontrol, I've had two of them when they were released. They were great! At the time some of the best pads. However they don't even come anywhere near the Maschine mk3 reliability and sensitivity. You must be smoking crack if you think that is the case.

[PAK]

You must have had a REALLY dodgy unit or even a fake of some kind..

I'm not sure how many of them you've opened up? They're decidely low tech as far as the pads go I also left it on 24/7. So I noticed things, like the Mikro's screen image retention issues, where most typical use cases wouldn't have.

As for the Korg padKontrol, I've had two of them when they were released. They were great! At the time some of the best pads. However they don't even come anywhere near the Maschine mk3 reliability and sensitivity. You must be smoking crack if you think that is the case.

What sort of tech do you think these types of pads use?! They're all EXTREMELY basic, and built to a price point. It generally comes down to the materials (feel) and sensitivity to differentiate since they're usually variations of the same thing.

Pads which use lower sensitivity will better conceal differences in manufacturing tolerances (uniformity). As you turn up the sensitivity you're going to make it easier to trigger the pads, but will also notice more issues. This applies to EVERY brand, not just NI. On the unit I had 2 or 3 of the pads were more prone to hangs. Mostly you did NOT notice the issue if you either lowered the sensitivity OR if you stuck to using it inside the Maschine software. The hangs actually came as a nasty surprise to me.

By their very nature these sorts of devices (keyboard keys are the same) have differences in their response, and the only way to tackle that is via strict manufacturing tolerances and quality control (which increases costs) OR mitigating it via other means, including software.

[Muziksculp]

Simply ... KONTAKT , nothing else from NI I will miss. Especially given the 3rd party sample libraries that I purchased, and 3rd party developers invested a lot of time and money developing, and paying NI to use Kontakt.

I'm glad that the major players in the sample library world, i.e. VSL, East West, Orchestral Tools, Spitfire, CineSamples, ..etc. Have developed their own Sample Players. That was a smart move, imagine they were all still depending on Kontakt !

There is always the probability that a new Sampler will be replace Kontakt in the near future, and be licensed to 3rd party developers, and users who want to use create their custom sampled instruments. Maybe with some AI aided features that can speed up the development process, which tends to be very tedious, surgical, and time consuming. (It's time we had a Smart-Sampler).

[ksandvik]

If, and only if, Kontakt disappeared or will be unsupported, there will be multiple ways to convert the Kontakt libraries to some other format for some other sampler.

[parma]

If, and only if, Kontakt disappeared or will be unsupported, there will be multiple ways to convert the Kontakt libraries to some other format for some other sampler.

For simple libraries maybe but there are really good heavily scripted Kontakt "libraries" out there that would almost certainly have to be rebuilt from the ground up. Thinking of stuff like Void and Vista and especially SLATE+ASH.

[ksandvik]

Could be but with the magic of coding....

[cryophonik]

Kontakt isn’t hardware. Please register those komplaints in the appropriate software sub forum.

[rod_zero]

I'm just bummed that they never further explored the Maschine concept. It had amazing potential and in my opinion the best drum pads in the whole industry. In general, most NI hardware seems to be built to a really high standard. That development attitude and hardware prowess is a huge loss if they go belly up.

Imagine a new Maschine+ with the latest Intel Panther Lake processor. Now that would be absolutely amazing!

The pads are stellar yes but the rest of the build quality isn't really high standard.

Their DJ hardware was notable for not being as rugged and durable as the application demanda, that is one big reason people went back to Pioneer equipment one "all in one" set ups became common.

Even the more premium stuff like de Z2 mixer had mediocre pots and worst buttons.

And the glossy finish was the worst decision ever.

[Mies]

"The greatest loss" most likely varies from individual to individual. For me:
- NI: Reaktor
- iZotope: RX

At least, re RX, I understand it's possible to switch its authorisation model to iLok and hopefully therefore give it a 2nd lease of life should the code/response model disappear as long as you have the installer file. But Reaktor... If I'm not mistaken, it needs to be installed from Native Access and if NA goes, so does Reaktor.