Stereo Widener Plugins

[Tubeman]

I woudn't use them, they always mess with mono compatibility.

[jens]

The one I mentioned doesn't.

[psycho45039]

As far as widers go:

my tool of choice is Nugen's Stereoizer.

Nugen's Monofilter is great at doing the opposite also. Especially useful to mono the bass region of a mix.

[jens]

As far as widers go:

my tool of choice is Nugen's Stereoizer.

Nugen's Monofilter is great at doing the opposite also. Especially useful to mono the bass region of a mix.

Yes, actually I regularly use both together (e.g. on bass-guitar and drums) - and Stereoplacer is great too. The whole suite is really useful - and frankly hard to beat (small, non-resizeable GUIs nonwithstanding).

[Tubeman]

The one I mentioned doesn't.

I would rather use a reverb or a delay to make a mono source appear stereo. The "guitar doublers" always sounded like shit and they sound like shit today.

[Benedict]

I used to avoid em like the plague back when everyone was acking like stereo be da only way to live.

I then realized that while some do really make a mess, others have purposes that can serve if used well, ie with greater sense of Why? than simply "wider stereo is widely better".

Hass still has plenty to recommend it. If one is silly enough to use it on sub-sub-sub-basses in sub-sub-sub-genres that require substantially mono substantiation, then one gets what one deserves. Not knowing one's craft has nothing to do with physics and the psychoabusetics games the 'uman bean plays.

Choruses & Echoes and other things that offer bipolar stereo modulation deffo have their places. But again if every sound is 200% wide before mixing, one is simply being a death alley driver. The wall is inevitable. Using wideners on the masters at that point simply makes it worse as there is no relative-to, to make the big ones bigger.

Phasers can be a lovely way to widen (and even tone shift without EQ). Start with no modulation movement at all and see how you can make great stereo (that collapses). It helps a ton if you have a knob for stereo width of bands, as locked to hard bi-polar is duff a lot of the time.

Mid-Side I just really started using. I only use it for EQ. With a bit of boost to the sides, the spaces do open up. Like anything, take care as it is easy to feel it is amazeballz as you slip the side slides up by 756dB, but it will feel weird in the real world.

[xx JPRacer xx]

My favorite widener is Polyverse Wider ( https://polyversemusic.com/products/wider/ ) and it's free. Of course, like bManic said, don't put it on every track or the master.

[jens]

The one I mentioned doesn't.

I would rather use a reverb or a delay to make a mono source appear stereo. The "guitar doublers" always sounded like shit and they sound like shit today.

Have you actually tried it or are you talking out of your arse entirely?

Its a rethorcial question by the way - your post tells me without any doubt that you never tried Nugen Stereoizer for even just one second.

It is not at all a doubler in any way, shape or form; i.e. you replied to my post without having even just the slightest clue what I was actually talking about!

I am just wondering why you did this... ?

[DCrown]

KVR could stop existing in future, if everyone just asked AI:

No, because the typical level of competence here by far exceeds AI, while yours obviously is significantly below it, which is why Dave suggested you (as opposed to everyone else in this thread) ought consult AI in order to at the very least reach a basic level of knowledge before continuing the conversation here.

Oh, didn't know there are high class producers here lol
What a snob you obviously are, omg, awkward.
You don't need any stereo widener at all for a music production, that's a fact! So you better learn the basics what is important for audio productions first before you talk about things that don't matter at all. I bet you are one of those guys who think they must add a compressor to every track.

And the fact you seem to use Nugen Stereoizer
tells us, you obviously are a prof high class producer haha
There are a hundred better options to make a mono guitar sound stereo, more realistic stereo!
One way is to copy a mono guitar track and add delay to the second track and don't keep delay time fixed, just automate it and let it change within a range for example 21ms to 35 ms and don't forget to pan the tracks L and R!
Maybe ask Google ai if stereo wideners are often used for music production and let us know the result. And maybe ask yourself why would anyone start a thread if everyone already knew everything, maybe there are different levels of knowledge and experience, different approaches, different views, different workflows, maybe? I don't know... or do we all have an ai chip in our brain with same level?!
Panning can be the key to a good mix, whereas stereo widening is not necessary at all.
Even better, just play and record a mono guitar track twice and pan each track, it is the faster way for me, you could also add a thin chorus to one track.
Absolute beginners who think they know better.

[vitocorleone123]

I woudn't use them, they always mess with mono compatibility.

Try Ancora. Not saying it’s perfect.

[DCrown]

Could you please explain more detailed what you mean by mono effects panned behind.
Do you mean a mono rhythm guitar panned to L45% and reverb for guitar panned mono to L 50% as an example? Or would reverb panned mono to L40% or same panning like guitar source L45% be behind? I don't understand "behind".
I saw a video where someone would pan mono guitar to L75 and mono reverb of guitar to R75.
I sometimes pan reverb mono to somewhere L or R where no other instrument is.
Imo if most instruments or fx are panned to stereo LR 100%, then there is too much.

I simply mean that when you use a reverb for an instrument source, try making it also mono.. then simply pan it to the exact same location as the source (if it's a send). If it's an insert then of course it pans together with your instrument by default.. just keep it mono or very narrow.

For slightly more advanced mixes you can try to slightly offset the panning of the reverb.. so lets say you panned the instrument source 50% Left, now try panning the reverb (which should still be mono or at least very very narrow) to 60% Left.. or 40% Left if you want the source to feel slightly more tilted towards center.

Oh and if anybody wants to go crazy with super wide stuff for a source (or FX send), try inserting an allpass filter on just the side channel in a mid/side EQ. That can instantly pop-out the stereo field of a stereo signal or fx and can sometimes sound awesome.. but often very unnatural, so be careful. If you set that allpass to be 12 or 24dB/octave, and make it quite narrow, then you can even control what exact frequency range "pops out".

Thanks. That's what I quite often do anyway. To always have reverb full stereo doesn't sound good to me, so I also use mono reverb on mono sources.

[Naenyn]

I always liked fiddling with QuikQuak’s.

https://www.quikquak.com/prod_UpStereopro.html

Recently picked up Softube Widener. I’ve not yet compared but it’s on the todo list.

[MJACau]

The new OD Ancora seems interesting. OD make high quality tools.

Playing with it seem not screw with the phase, it's very subtle.

[DaveClark]

Could you please explain more detailed what you mean by mono effects panned behind.
Do you mean a mono rhythm guitar panned to L45% and reverb for guitar panned mono to L 50% as an example? Or would reverb panned mono to L40% or same panning like guitar source L45% be behind? I don't understand "behind".
I saw a video where someone would pan mono guitar to L75 and mono reverb of guitar to R75.
I sometimes pan reverb mono to somewhere L or R where no other instrument is.
Imo if most instruments or fx are panned to stereo LR 100%, then there is too much.

I simply mean that when you use a reverb for an instrument source, try making it also mono.. then simply pan it to the exact same location as the source (if it's a send). If it's an insert then of course it pans together with your instrument by default.. just keep it mono or very narrow.

For slightly more advanced mixes you can try to slightly offset the panning of the reverb.. so lets say you panned the instrument source 50% Left, now try panning the reverb (which should still be mono or at least very very narrow) to 60% Left.. or 40% Left if you want the source to feel slightly more tilted towards center.

Oh and if anybody wants to go crazy with super wide stuff for a source (or FX send), try inserting an allpass filter on just the side channel in a mid/side EQ. That can instantly pop-out the stereo field of a stereo signal or fx and can sometimes sound awesome.. but often very unnatural, so be careful. If you set that allpass to be 12 or 24dB/octave, and make it quite narrow, then you can even control what exact frequency range "pops out".

Thanks. That's what I quite often do anyway. To always have reverb full stereo doesn't sound good to me, so I also use mono reverb on mono sources.

And Google AI says:

QUOTE

AI Overview
Panning reverb along with a monophonic source is a highly effective, albeit non-traditional, mixing technique that prioritizes
clarity, separation, and intentional localization over the natural, all-encompassing "same room" effect. While many mixers aim to place all elements in one shared space using a central stereo reverb, keeping the reverb panned with the source—or in some cases, opposite to it—helps create a tighter, more modern sound, particularly in busy mixes.
Here is a breakdown of the perspectives on this technique:
Key Advantages

Enhanced Clarity and Definition: Using mono reverb, or a stereo reverb panned to follow the mono source, keeps the center of the stereo image free from clutter.
Increased Focus: It allows the instrument or vocal to remain "dry" enough to feel up-front, while still having atmosphere.
Intentional "Fake" Width: By panning a mono source to one side and its reverb slightly (or hard) to the opposite side, you can create a wide, dramatic stereo image that sounds very intentional, a technique common in older rock records.
Improved Mono Compatibility: When a mono source and its associated panned reverb are summed to mono, the lack of complex phase differences between wide stereo, often results in a cleaner, less comb-filtered sound.

Common Approaches

Same-Side Panning: If a guitar is panned hard left, its reverb is also panned hard left. This makes the instrument sound like it's located in a specific spot within a room.
Opposite-Side Panning (The "Abbey Road" approach): A dry mono source is placed on one side, while the reverb return is sent to the opposite side. This provides intense width and separation.
Narrowed Stereo Reverb: Instead of a full 100% L/R spread, the stereo reverb is narrowed and panned to follow the mono source, offering a balance between space and focus.

Considerations

Naturalness: If the goal is a natural, acoustic, "in-the-room" sound, panning reverb is less ideal than using a single, central stereo reverb.
Headphone Listening: Extremely panned, opposing dry/wet signals can sometimes feel disorienting on headphones.
Workflow: Achieving this in a DAW requires either inserting the reverb directly on the track (pre-fader) or using separate aux sends for different panned sources, which can be more tedious than a single, shared reverb bus.

Conclusion: Panning reverb with the source is an excellent creative tool for creating width and keeping mixes from becoming "muddy" or "washed out." It is less about creating a "natural" space and more about creating a "produced" space.

UNQUOTE


My own goal is almost exclusively the "natural space" approach. While early reflections are predominantly from the direction of the source, later reflections can come from anywhere, including counter-intuitive swells coming from the opposite side of the room - not illusions, real sound waves. The reverb tail is progressively omnidirectional.

[VladK]

Polyverve Wider and Izotope Imager are both free and convert mono to stereo without phasing issues.