OB-Xf by Surge Synth Team

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yeah that is squarely in the "this is not that sort of synth" territory.

A synth that won't be used with effects is certainly new territory for me. But it might catch on

One day, someone will fork it and vibe code on the Surge FX. One day! The name OB-Xfx is just waiting to be used!

But personally, I'm with you. I like having a few FX with my plugin synths. I've never been a fan of completely FX-free synth plugins. Even Softube was eventually like, 'we have to add a 224-style Reverb to the CS-80'.

But baconpaul, ED, and others have done so much already and it's just not in their vision for OB-Xf, so I respect their take on it.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Yeah that is squarely in the "this is not that sort of synth" territory.

A synth that won't be used with effects is certainly new territory for me. But it might catch on

One day, someone will fork it and vibe code on the Surge FX. One day! The name OB-Xfx is just waiting to be used!

But personally, I'm with you. I like having a few FX with my plugin synths. I've never been a fan of completely FX-free synth plugins. Even Softube was eventually like, 'we have to add a 224-style Reverb to the CS-80'.

But baconpaul, ED, and others have done so much already and it's just not in their vision for OB-Xf, so I respect their take on it.

To be clear, this is not about an expectation for blood from these developers. I am totally with you and everyone else in respecting and being grateful for the amount of work they've put into these (free) tools, for this community.

But we know that ultimately nobody is going to use these sounds un-effected. including FX within the framework makes it so much easier to move presets between DAW, and opens up a whole new world in terms of sharing presets between users. The suggestion to use the SurgeFX is not the worst compromise. It just means sharing the appropriate presets within that, which apply to the synth sound etc. But it seems so clunky.

Anyway...I guess we can just hope for someone else to take up the challenge

[EvilDragon]

Tell you this way. I'd much rather people just load Supermassive after OB-Xf. None of FX that we have in our stable are as great as that one, really.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Tell you this way. I'd much rather people just load Supermassive after OB-Xf. None of FX that we have in our stable are as great as that one, really.

[digitalboytn]

But we know that ultimately nobody is going to use these sounds un-effected.

I use OB-Xf without effects most of the time...

There are so many ways to make this synth sound great without resorting to banging on some reverb or delay...

I use a channel strip with compression and EQ,but that's usually it...

Too many effects can make the whole mix sound muddy and individual voices can easily lose their definition and character when they are all drenched in syrup.....

Many synths need effects to make them sound halfway decent because the main components - the oscillators and the filters are just not up to speed...

But OB-Xf is not one of those synths...

Anyway...like ED said...

If we do need a little bit of added magic there are always things like Super Massive

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Too many effects can make the whole mix sound muddy and individual voices can easily lose their definition and character when they are all drenched in syrup.....

There're many steps on the road between "drenched in syrup" and "you'll have no effects and you'll be happy". Somewhere around the middle is where Buddha used to reside; That is, until someone met him on that very same road...and killed him. But that still leaves Goldilocks and this cute little guy:

[baconpaul]

Adding the effects isn’t that hard and I also always use fx with obxf; but other than that “this preset has fx I need to turn off before I use it in a mix” the case for in synth fx just hasn’t seemed that compelling for this sort of restore-some-code-scale project

My bet is with latest ai tools it would be less than a few hours to add it to the engine with the way we have the surge fx factored. But the ui is a challenge and the “why” is also a challenge since once you do that people will want more modulators and so on ….

And come on. If any one here is using the Valhalla reverbs and is thinking “wow I wish I had surge reverb2 instead” then I have questions:)

We do have a few things we want to do post 1.0 - mpe note expressions and clap polymod are obvious ones - so not like it will be dormant. But investing in a full ui and modulation workflow for fx in the synth, or worse, doing same in a half assed way seems kinda meh

[baconpaul]

Oh and of course if you disagree and can write the code or cause it to be written using toolset of your choice let us know. Not saying we wouldn’t merge a well done fx implementation just saying it’s not on my or evils roadmap for 26!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Tell you this way. I'd much rather people just load Supermassive after OB-Xf. None of FX that we have in our stable are as great as that one, really.

Well, get to work on that.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah, no, Sean is one of a kind

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yeah, no, Sean is one of a kind

C'mon don't give up so quickly. 20+ years of intense focus and study and experimentation in reverb design, and you can get there too! OB-Xfx 2049.

[digitalboytn]

Somewhere around the middle is where Buddha used to reside...

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Adding the effects isn’t that hard and I also always use fx with obxf; but other than that “this preset has fx I need to turn off before I use it in a mix” the case for in synth fx just hasn’t seemed that compelling for this sort of restore-some-code-scale project

My bet is with latest ai tools it would be less than a few hours to add it to the engine with the way we have the surge fx factored. But the ui is a challenge and the “why” is also a challenge since once you do that people will want more modulators and so on ….

And come on. If any one here is using the Valhalla reverbs and is thinking “wow I wish I had surge reverb2 instead” then I have questions:)

We do have a few things we want to do post 1.0 - mpe note expressions and clap polymod are obvious ones - so not like it will be dormant. But investing in a full ui and modulation workflow for fx in the synth, or worse, doing same in a half assed way seems kinda meh

Everything to do with the amount of work needed etc. is good enough reason to not do it. Even when it comes to paid products there’s a limit as to what us users have the right to expect.

So, no argument there (although, it might not have to be the hugest upheaval??)

But if you’re going to make arguments which depend on comparing the quality of effects, especially those given as part of an instrument, and dedicated external, 3rd-party units, where does that stop?

Are here any synth effects that compete with what we can get externally? Is everybody except me turning internal effects off? And why, if ‘reverb2’, is so bad, would you sully SurgeXT with its inclusion?

But no, I’m not able to code, unfortunately. Would certainly be up for contributing if I could.

[EvilDragon]

Are here any synth effects that compete with what we can get externally?

Yes. Massive X has absolutely fantastic built-in FX, for example.

And why, if ‘reverb2’, is so bad, would you sully SurgeXT with its inclusion?

Because it was there already at the moment of open-sourcing, it was not our addition.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Are here any synth effects that compete with what we can get externally?

Yes. Massive X has absolutely fantastic built-in FX, for example.

And why, if ‘reverb2’, is so bad, would you sully SurgeXT with its inclusion?

Because it was there already at the moment of open-sourcing, it was not our addition.

Yes…the MX fx are lovely, albeit somewhat annoying. But I wasn’t asking whether synths had great quality FX. I was asking if any synth had better FX than most of us have in dedicated form. Because, if the argument is to defer to Sean et al for all FX duties then what’s the point in any synth including their own?

Thanks for the detail om r2. So, presumably, the one you eventually code to replace that can also be included in OP