OB-Xf by Surge Synth Team

[EvilDragon]

Well, we included some Airwindows reverbs...

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Well, we included some Airwindows reverbs...

Sure! All good. As is reverb2

[baconpaul]

And why, if ‘reverb2’, is so bad, would you sully SurgeXT with its inclusion?

Because it was there already at the moment of open-sourcing, it was not our addition.

Actually if you recall ancient history, Evil, when it was open source reverb2 was in the code base but not turned on because of a bug. We fixed that and turned it on.

Look reverb2 is fine. It's not bad. It's basically the same tank network as that famous paper by dattorro and the same thing thats in plateau in rack and stuff. And similar, but far less tweaked, to many of the valhalla reverbs.

And of course I was being a bit cheeky. The surge effects are fine. With the surge mod matrix they are useful (answering your question as to why it is handy to have them in a fuylly-modulatable synth). As a standalone they are semi-useful. Some like nimbus and combulator are still pretty unique. Having them in rack is a boost to the communith.

But I haven't used surge fx standalone with reverb2 when I have vintage verb sitting right there ever.

[Teksonik]

To me a synth like the OB-Xf (or any of its other versions) really needs effects. A little chorus, a touch of reverb, a pinch of delay, etc.

I wonder how many times an OB was used bone dry in tracks from the time period.

Having said that, are there superior external FX plugins that sound better than anything that could added internally? Quite possibly so but I am a huge fan of using included FX when making presets. I generally prefer everything to be included in a patch including an Arp (hint ) as I find tacking on external effects or Arp plugins more tedious than using the built in alternatives. That also allows us to share our patches more easily as it does not require everyone to have the same external plugins or work in the same DAW when using track templates.

One could of course also use external effects in addition if they wish but without them being built in we're forced to use the external options which can be restricting to some.

So if I had a magic wand I would wave it over OB-Xf and give it a suite of built in FX and a well featured Arp.

Now do I expect those things to be added to OB-Xf? No, given the amount of work that would create but it does not lessen my desire for them.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I actually kinda like synths without effects because it actually nudges me to go and use the amazing effects plugins I have that are underused, especially with synths! So many synth plugins have effects, and tend to throw those on, but after a few the sound is full enough and I'm less inclined to add FX plugins. Plus even just loading some presets from a synth and trying out some different fx plugins gives more unique combinations that would not have ben stumbled on in the synth alone.

[Vortifex]

In all my time using OB-Xd I never once felt like it lacked onboard effects. And onboard effects tend to lack features that I use all the time, like highpass or stereo width on delay. I'm happy to use third party stuff.

[baconpaul]

Yeah I get it patch management and modulation support are the case for onboard, and while modulation support doesn't really apply here, that sound design patch management one does.

And I agree an OB was probably never used bone dry in a track when it was out there. I'm sure lots of effects were added. Outboard.

But like I said: doable. Engine work is easy. UI and workflow work is hard. Not in our 26 roadmap. But we are an open contribution project and I'm happy to guide someone through parts of how I would tackle it if someone wants to make it a big community contribution in 26.

We have a lot to do with short circuit 1.0 and surge 1.4 and (redacted one) and (redacted two) on my list at least!

[audiojunkie]

We have a lot to do with short circuit 1.0 and surge 1.4 and (redacted one) and (redacted two) on my list at least!

Dang it, Paul!! Redacted?!

[Teksonik]

And I agree an OB was probably never used bone dry in a track when it was out there. I'm sure lots of effects were added. Outboard.

Yes of course outboard...because they didn't have onboard effects. It was not a choice to use outboard FX it was the only option. Well at least until the 0B-6 came along in 2016 which did have onboard digital effects because....progress.

But again I'm not expecting the Surge team to add FX to the OB-Xf but if this was the make a wish foundation that would be my wish (and a capable Arp). I realize the OB project from 2Dat on has been designed to pay tribute to the OBs of old and it accomplishes that task very well.

The real point I want to make (and this goes for any feature in any plugin) is if that feature exists those who want it can use it and those who don't can ignore it. Win-Win

If the feature doesn't exist then people must use the workaround. Win-Loss.

The need to load up three or four additional plugins just to give some spice to a synth is the antithesis of efficient workflow for me especially as someone who uses more than one DAW. Of course I can also use outboard effects if I wish... again more options.

In the end I think it's rather disrespectful to think that those who are talented and skilled enough to create synth plugins can not also program excellent FX as well.

Now if you're talking about wizz bang dedicated FX units that can do your laundry and cook your breakfast then yes external FX will probably win out.

But just for a nice reverb or sweet chorus and capable delay I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that built in FX can easily get the job done and once again, they can be ignored.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

We have a lot to do with short circuit 1.0 and surge 1.4 and (redacted one) and (redacted two) on my list at least!

You heard it here first folks: the Surge team is taking over Kontakt and Reaktor!

Baconpaul found some change in the couch cushions.

*Disclaimer: this post is a work of fiction.

[baconpaul]

Ha ha ha. They are much more modest goals than that the things I redacted, yet still wavy enough that I don’t even want to admit they may get my attention

[audiojunkie]

We have a lot to do with short circuit 1.0 and surge 1.4 and (redacted one) and (redacted two) on my list at least!

You heard it here first folks: the Surge team is taking over Kontakt and Reaktor!

Baconpaul found some change in the couch cushions.

*Disclaimer: this post is a work of fiction.

I love this! We can all dream.

[ampetrosillo]

Well, the thing is, there aren't many good open source reverbs I can think of. Like, the only one I like is Freeverb Hibiki (and I actually like it a lot). And possibly the kPlate series by Airwindows (grainy and weird but for some reason they actually work). And that's one effect. There's all the others to work on (even though reverb is possibly the hardest).

[ampetrosillo]

That said, this kind of synth could be imagined with, like, three fixed effects (chorus, delay, reverb) with very limited parameters (rate and depth, or rate and mix for chorus; time, FB and mix for delay; decay and mix for reverb). Three small panels. All the effects could be internally tailored as to make them "just work" and have a period-correct tone for chorus and delay.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

That said, this kind of synth could be imagined with, like, three fixed effects (chorus, delay, reverb) with very limited parameters (rate and depth, or rate and mix for chorus; time, FB and mix for delay; decay and mix for reverb). Three small panels. All the effects could be internally tailored as to make them "just work" and have a period-correct tone for chorus and delay.

That's exactly what I envision. Just a rectangular area at the bottom of the UI with Chorus, Delay, Reverb and a limited set of controls for each.