Auto Sampler, which one ? / all platforms / + creative uses

[audiojunkie]

from the NI thread, my answer to some quotes. i place it here too:

That's a Mac OS specific thread and I don't use Apple products

I see ! but it is my thread, the original (my) topic has been solved, and i can easily change the topic title ......or we just can create a new topic

A little bit arrogant pointing elsewhere, and then to a specific MAC-topic ,.. I use PC

i am arrogant cause i overlooked a tiny detail in the header that nolonger play a role ? you chose

Auto-sample is very highly topic, considered the situation, format, and ways to move on

yes, and the topic could just be switched over to be a general topic.


....and post this RE - in all my arrogance - now in said "unsuited" topic. Cause i don´t want to derail -in all my arrogance- the NI thread further. ...but you just ruined my day. Thanks for that anyway. means i´m nolonger exactkly interested myself

Don’t worry, all is good! You weren’t arrogant. I appreciate you.

[Funky40]

Thanks !....it was kidding in some way


The header has been changed

no platform restrictions. Let´s discuss "auto sampling"

[IvyBirds]

I have been Autosampling Synths for many many years, and doing it manually for many years before that

These are the things I wish I had done from the start many of them learned the hardway

1.)by far the most important thing is to have a good organization system for your finished samples. You want something that works for you that you can easily backup, and also move around from computer to computer. You also need to be able to find and use things quickly

2.)only use software that creates non propritary standard WAV files. Sampler Software and Hardware comes and goes, what you use now might not be what you use 5 or 10 years from now, WAV files are forever

3.)Autosampling is easy but takes time. Use secondary computers to make them. This is a great thing for your old computer to do wjen you get a new one and then your main studio computer isn't tied up.

[carrieres]

IvyBirds, I would like to know your workflow using Arturia's samplers

[IvyBirds]

IvyBirds, I would like to know your workflow using Arturia's samplers

Sure. Arturia currently has three "vintage" samplers as well as Pigments. I don't really use Pigments as a sampler but rather focus on the three vintage ones. Which one depends on the sound and the need.

1.)CMI V. Has a very "digital lowfi" type sound with lots of aliasing. Has 10 sample slots and a max sample time of 30 seconds. The plugin has variable sample rates and but depths but the original hardware the CMI IIx that Arturia modeled was 24kHz at 8 bits

2.) Synclavier V is much cleaner than CMI. Has 12 sample slots and a max sample time of 30 seconds. The plugin has variable sample rates but the original hardware was up to 100kHz and 16 bits (first units were 12bit samplers) but most of the time people sampled at 50khz

3.)Emulator II V is much much warmer and analog sounding than the others thanks to its modeled SSM filters. Has 8 sample slots with no maximum sample times. The original hardware used a complex data compression scheme called DPCM with mu-law companding this data compression scheme was in the public domain and was used extensively by telephone companies in the 1980s. This allowed it to store the samples using just 8 bits at 27khz but sound like a 14bit sampler with much higher sample rate. The Arturia plugin models this perfectly by streaming playback of the samples off your hard drive and then applying the conversion which is why there is no maximum sample time

It's important to understand the basics of the hardware to understand my workflow. The Arturia software will default to using bit depth and sample rate settings that are pretty close to the original hardware.

As far as using an Autosampler to get the samples I use the one in Gig Performer because it makes standard WAV files. I make 24 bit 48kHz samples. The various plugins will change those to a value that emulates the hardware so I make high quality samples. I sample C and F# across six octaves starting with C1 and ending with C6. That will give me twelve 24bit 48kHz samples. For sustained sounds like pads I do two rounds one for 29 seconds and the other for 59 seconds. For sounds that don't sustain and decay on their own like say pianos I set the sample time for a second or two beyond when they naturally decay to zero db. I use 100 as my velocity. For bass patches I will usually start at C0 however .

Everything is stored in organized folders. I have a folder for vintage samplers. Inside that I have three folders one for 29 second sustained, one for 59 second sustained, and the third called "decay". Inside of those you will see folders for all the Synths I sampled from for example you will a folder called "M1" that is samples from every preset I like from the Korg M1 Plugin. You will find Universe in the sustained folders, and the infamous piano in the decay folder each in individual folders named for the preset. Click on the folder with the patch name and you will see the 12 WAV files

Now that we have the samples it's time to create the patches in the sampler. So I just pick one of the three folders find the samples I want and load them.

This is where your ear comes into play and it's more of an art than science. For pads/sustained sounds I will pretty much always use Emulator II V as it just sounds incredible and I love it so much. Because it has unlimited sample times I use the 59 second samples. The first thing I do is drop the C5 sample onto the C6 key and then just play. Many times that will end up sounding awesome and then I tweak the envelopes and filter and add a touch of reverb to act as extra sustain upon release and I am done. If that doesn't work I will remove the sample and map the C4 to the C5 and repeat. If that doesn't work I will map all of the C samples followed by all of the F# samples

You will notice I didn't mention loop points as I don't need them. When mapped an octave above a minute long sample becomes a two minute sample and if you play it an octave below that a 4 minute sample. With normal playing you will never hit the end of the sample, for drones and ambient things you can set the sample to start playing backwards when it gets to end. With a lush reverb you won't notice it

For sounds that decay like that M1 piano I almost always use the CMI V and map everything across the 10 slots. Again because these sounds decay there is no loop points. This will give those sounds a nice gritty digital sound. For less grit set the sample rate to 12 or 16 bits for more turn it down. You can also tweak the sample rates for more aliasing. 8 bits and a sample rate of 10kHz and you are emulating the classic Casio SK1 and SK5 "toy" samplers of the 1980s

For drums and percussion samples I like to use the Synclavier V with its 12 slots and map them to standard MIDI drum mapping then use the sample and bit rate reduction to add more filth and aliasing

That's it in a nutshell, should also add that both the CMI and the Synclavier can use resynthesis to turn the sample into an additive patch. I prefer the Synclavier for this. I do a lot of resynthesis things with various plugins including the Synclavier, but also HALion7, Myth etc. so I also use autosamplers to make a series of samples that are 10 seconds long and 5 seconds long to use for this purpose, these also come in handy for making Wavetables

[carrieres]

Thank you

[HM]

Thanks !....it was kidding in some way


The header has been changed

no platform restrictions. Let´s discuss "auto sampling"

Hehe, super, btw that arogant comment just had to do with being "pointed around",
and simply for not agreeing to the specific definition of what was "offtopic", and what
not, in the NI-collapse thread, anyway, peace with that

Whats most important, IMHO, is for us all to elevate our self from being format-locked,
and risc get robbed and stolen what we paid for, in full daylight, + secure our backup
being continuasly open to work on later at any time

I have everything to learn, and have to decide for both tools and how far to go with it

As for now I got latest Halion, Wavelab Pro, Sound Forge, + Cubase 14 that might at
least be useful for certain tasks and batch-proccesing, and also Studio One 7 with the
"Sampe One XT" and "Presence XT" extensions that is claimed to do certain sample things

Might evt. get some more tools if I end up to find it makes sense, and cost reasonable,..

If nothing else driven by the indignation of whats going on with NI and kontakt-format

Some old equipment, like fovorite-sounds from my KS-32, and various my E-mu modules,
could make sense to sample also, Digital Sound Factory already released some with other
format than kontakt ,... but with E-mu one would miss the z-plane filters big time ,...
(guess Emulator X3 did die when Creative shot down the autorization-server foor good)

[Funky40]

Hehe, super,........

yeah, the start of the thread was difficult to phrase out.

To put "Mac only" in the header had the intention to save folks -readers / input takers- some time

BUT: it kept those away who actually work with crossplatform tools, like Ivy does. I´m for example also a GigPerformer user. While my main intention -my GAS- was to check if sample robot would be something for me. Both crossplatform tools.
While i have Logic also, but never use it. ( i use no DAWs at all....2-4 times a year in good years)

Seeing @ivybirds using GPs auto sampler the most, while he has SampleRobot as well, answers alots to me.

oh well, still need to check that Logic auto sampler. Good we have this thread !....with instructions and links

Whats most important, IMHO, is for us all to elevate our self from being format-locked

when it comes to multisample librarys, to just stick to .wav seems to have something to it.
At least for any DIY auto sampling attempts

[HM]

Seeing @ivybirds using GPs auto sampler the most, while he has SampleRobot as well, answers alots to me.

oh well, still need to check that Logic auto sampler. Good we have this thread !....with instructions and links

when it comes to multisample librarys, to just stick to .wav seems to have something to it.
At least for any DIY auto sampling attempts

Yes, good we have this thread, there is tons of good info for me, thanks to all for good
contribution, in specific I got lots of questions sorted out from ivybirds the last few days,
and I will dig backwords as time allows.

Yes, .wav for sure

[Examigan]

HALion can auto sample. I never used it myself, but have seen videos about it.

[IvyBirds]

HALion can auto sample. I never used it myself, but have seen videos about it.

Yes it can. It's more of a Semi Automatic sampler however because you have to send it MIDI and use the same Midi to trigger your synth, it also doesn't host the VST itself so you have to host it somewhere else and then send it the Audio

This is pretty easy to setup with Cubase where you can host both HALion7 and the VST you want to sample especially as you can so easily sequence the MIDI and save it as a preset for future use

I use it when I need a more hands on experience as opposed to when I just want to hit start and walk away. It's awesome for that and in the end you still get a folder of all the WAV files. You also of course will get a HALion7 preset and the samples will automatically be added to the "media bay" so you can then use them in the other engines like granular, turn them into a Wavetable or whatever

You can also use it to just record a single sample to them import into the Spectral Synth for resynthesis

[IvyBirds]

Dp

[IvyBirds]

Seeing @ivybirds using GPs auto sampler the most, while he has SampleRobot as well, answers alots to me.

oh well, still need to check that Logic auto sampler. Good we have this thread !....with instructions and links

when it comes to multisample librarys, to just stick to .wav seems to have something to it.
At least for any DIY auto sampling attempts

Yes, good we have this thread, there is tons of good info for me, thanks to all for good
contribution, in specific I got lots of questions sorted out from ivybirds the last few days,
and I will dig backwords as time allows.

Yes, .wav for sure

HTH if you have any specific questions feel free to fire away I have been doing this for a very long time

Somewhere around 1995 I was on a long gone and forgotten forum where one of the sound editors from the X-files TV Show talked about the way that they did the score with Mark Snow. He had a Synclavier II which remained a favorite in the 1990s and into the 2000s because if it's Sample Management, Sequencer, and high quality playback. There was an interesting thread and conversation

He maintained a Synclavier II at his home studio and they had one exactly like it at sound editing/post production facility. When I say exact I mean exact right down to having the exact same sample libraries organized the exact same way.

The kicker was they would sample all kinds of Synths,, So if you watch the X-files (which is one of my favorite shows) you will hear things like a Korg Wavestation or JD990 or even a Proteus 2 which is the source of the whistle on the theme song (layered with a sample of his wife whistling)

That way Mark Snow could make an hour long score every week in the pre DAW era and just send over a disk with the sequences on it that would just load and then make pristine recordings on the fly with the rest of the dialogue and foley

Anyway that seemed like a pretty cool thing to do, to have my own sample library of synths that I made. In the mid-late1990s with the gear I had it was of course very crude and tedious but I never gave up on the idea. Over the years I have tried and explored every possible way to do it and Autosamplers were the way

The other major impediment was the cost of hard drives to make massive libraries, over the last 5-7 that has also been eliminated as the cost of those has plummeted

In the end Autosampling can be used to archive things if you sell off hardware or software, or if it breaks or the company that made it disappears, or you use it as a way to bring all your sounds to the gig with less CPU overhead

The other really cool thing I have found it does however is when you use a plugin to make a cool sound, Autosample it, load it into a sampler and then make it even cooler, then you start looking at plugins entirely differently than you did before and you start to think hmmmmm what if I made this sound in this plugin so I could then load it into this sampler plugin and do this with it

[Funky40]

HALion can auto sample. I never used it myself, but have seen videos about it.

Yes it can. It's more of a Semi Automatic sampler however because you have to send it MIDI and use the same Midi to trigger your synth, it also doesn't host the VST itself so you have to host it somewhere else and then send it the Audio

This is pretty easy to setup with Cubase where you can host both HALion7 and the VST you want to sample especially as you can so easily sequence the MIDI and save it as a preset for future use

ok, so you literally told me a possible solution to realise my dream.

If i get to it, i´ll see. ......i have other workloads and my health is breaking.
At least i have Cubase (2nd latest) and Halion 7. (But i can´t operate them very far. Well, Halion7 serves me as my "one-sample jam-along player....and is super great for that btw.)


So my workflow would have to look like this:
- setup a midi sequence in cubase for pitch
- also setup a Automation lane sequence in cubase
- send both, midi pitch and CC over to Gigperformer (using "relayer")
- have that midi play "my patch" in GP
- send the audio from GP to cubase, there within to Halion 7 (using "relayer")


Good, i can split that off into building blocks that i have to learn to make work.
The send forth and back stuff first, using relayer. Then incorporate Halion7 in a next step.
That should be doable

( jfyi: "Relayer" is GPs own plugin resembling a virtual audio/midi cable / available with GP. And only so)

Thanks ! Things start to come together for me, i think.

[IvyBirds]

HALion can auto sample. I never used it myself, but have seen videos about it.

Yes it can. It's more of a Semi Automatic sampler however because you have to send it MIDI and use the same Midi to trigger your synth, it also doesn't host the VST itself so you have to host it somewhere else and then send it the Audio

This is pretty easy to setup with Cubase where you can host both HALion7 and the VST you want to sample especially as you can so easily sequence the MIDI and save it as a preset for future use

ok, so you literally told me a possible solution to realise my dream.

If i get to it, i´ll see. ......i have other workloads and my health is breaking.
At least i have Cubase (2nd latest) and Halion 7. (But i can´t operate them very far. Well, Halion7 serves me as my "one-sample jam-along player....and is super great for that btw.)


So my workflow would have to look like this:
- setup a midi sequence in cubase for pitch
- also setup a Automation lane sequence in cubase
- send both, midi pitch and CC over to Gigperformer (using "relayer")
- have that midi play "my patch" in GP
- send the audio from GP to cubase, there within to Halion 7 (using "relayer")


Good, i can split that off into building blocks that i have to learn to make work.
The send forth and back stuff first, using relayer. Then incorporate Halion7 in a next step.
That should be doable

( jfyi: "Relayer" is GPs own plugin resembling a virtual audio/midi cable / available with GP. And only so)

Thanks ! Things start to come together for me, i think.

I am also a Gig Performer user. I actually use it more than my DAW

If you already have Gig Performer there is no need to do what you said as it overcomplicates things and you don't need Cubase at all

Gig Performer starting with I think version 4 has an autosampler which was enhanced a bit with version 5. (I am currently running the newest version of 5)

The autosampler works with two of the factory plugins. One is called Autosampler Generator and the other Autosampler Recorder. Those work awesome and will generate presets for you in the Decent Sampler Format. However if you want to use HALion7 instead here is how you do it

Launch Gig Performer and go to the wiring view. Go to the GP plugins and select Autosampler Generator. This is just a MIDI Generator. You tell it the notes you want to sample the velocities etc and it will generate the MIDI. Normally you would send the MIDI to your plugins and then send the audio to the recorder. However we will be using HALion7

So out of the Generator you wire thae MIDI into your synth plugin(s). This is GP so you can use a single plugin or as many as you want, add effects, run into a mixer whatever you can dream up. In the end just run the finished audio and the MIDI into HALion7. You can even run two instances of HALion7 if you want to Autosample it. I do this all the time, one for playback and the other to record

Then in HALion7 you would just set the sampler controls to the same as the notes that GP's Autosampler Generator is going to generate

HALion7 works by listening to the incoming MIDI to start and stop the recording of the individual samples based on note on and off messages so this setup works perfectly and it's super simple and all inside of GP no need for relayer

Alternately you can just create a sequence of notes in Cubase, save it as a MIDI file and then play that back in GP using the MIDI File Player. Everything else would be the same you would just be using MIDI files instead of the generator

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you do it this way.inside of GP with one of these methods than doing it with relayer