Future of Windows in pro audio

[BertKoor]

> What scares MS is "Open Source"

Who owns github?

[audiojunkie]

> What scares MS is "Open Source"

Who owns github?

Hehehe!! I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

The truth is that Microsoft has been a lot better than during the Ballmer years, as previously said. I don't care for the Microsoft push for everything to be subscription, but at least they aren't incorporating FUD about Linux and open source anymore.

[keys_au1]

This stuff actually sounds pretty cool, Pete, I am going to be looking into it further.

Can you say anything about W11 and Midi Services project that you mentioned?

Thanks.

Nut shell: New MIDI stack currently rolling out to Windows 11 24h2 and 25h2 retail.
- Multi-client so every port can be used by any number of applications
- Automatic MIDI 2.0 <> MIDI 1.0 translation and scaling so all apps can speak to all devices, using MIDI 1.0 or the new MIDI 2.0 APIs
- New, faster combined MIDI 2.0 and MIDI 1.0 USB driver
- Built-in loopback endpoint support
- Built in app-to-app MIDI support (fully MIDI 2.0-capable virtual device apps)
- Preview Network MIDI 2.0 support
- Future: BLE MIDI 1.0 and BLE MIDI 2.0 support, virtual patchbay support, more
- All works on Arm64 and x64 PCs.
- Downloadable MIDI Settings app, MIDI Console, PowerShell cmdlets for MIDI scripting, and more
- Discord server: https://aka.ms/mididiscord

The parts that aren't open source:
- Existing in-box WinRT MIDI 1.0 API re-plumbed to talk to the new MIDI Service and devices
- Existing in-box WinMM MIDI 1.0 API re-plumbed in the same way.

Multi-client MIDI w/translation demo


Written by the three of us (Video from the NAMM Show last month)


Pete
Microsoft

that all looks nice, but really tbh, Bluetooth BLE SHOULD have made it previously, at the very least to these latest releases. Not MAYBE for some way off in the distance release! BLE works easily on Linux and on Apple. TO me, it really makes Windows redundant for a lot of controller work!

[jamcat]

That’s all cool. Really. But it’s also about 30 years late.

MIDI 2.0 just came out.

The rest: sure, it's taken a while. But it's not "too late" because it's of huge benefit to everyone immediately.

Pete
Microsoft

I said ‘late’ not “too late.”

Though, now that you mention it, I have been hearing about MIDI 2.0 for about 20 years now, too. Is it really finally here?

[Psychlist1972]

that all looks nice, but really tbh, Bluetooth BLE SHOULD have made it previously, at the very least to these latest releases. Not MAYBE for some way off in the distance release! BLE works easily on Linux and on Apple. TO me, it really makes Windows redundant for a lot of controller work!

It's been in the WinRT MIDI 1.0 API for nearly a decade. Cubase and some other apps natively support that API. We put it in after we voted to adopt the BLE MIDI protocol specification back in 2015-ish in the MIDI Association.

For those which do not, the Store application midiBerry connects that API to the WinMM MIDI 1.0 API that pretty much every other app supports.

I'm surprised you weren't aware of that if you are working with BLE MIDI.

The feature I'm talking about is to use it natively in the new SDK/API, with an enhanced feature set.

Pete
Microsoft

[Psychlist1972]

That’s all cool. Really. But it’s also about 30 years late.

MIDI 2.0 just came out.

The rest: sure, it's taken a while. But it's not "too late" because it's of huge benefit to everyone immediately.

Pete
Microsoft

I said ‘late’ not “too late.”

Though, now that you mention it, I have been hearing about MIDI 2.0 for about 20 years now, too. Is it really finally here?

Fair enough.

MIDI 2.0: The early versions of it were really complex and not at all backwards compatible. It just never got off the ground. When the MIDI association got new leadership, the effort was rebooted to take the best of what was on offer there, and incorporate it into a new MIDI 2.0 standard that includes backwards-compatibility support. That got off the ground very quickly. An initial spec came out in 2020. That had some things that just turned out not to be practical in real-world operating systems, so Apple/Google/Microsoft and others supported changes to clean that up. The revised specification was released in 2022. My first check-in to the Windows MIDI Services repo is July 2022. The team working on the new MIDI stack is small, and we also had to replumb (basically rewrite) the older in-box MIDI APIs, so it took a while.

Pete

[keys_au1]

that all looks nice, but really tbh, Bluetooth BLE SHOULD have made it previously, at the very least to these latest releases. Not MAYBE for some way off in the distance release! BLE works easily on Linux and on Apple. TO me, it really makes Windows redundant for a lot of controller work!

......For those which do not, the Store application midiBerry connects that API to the WinMM MIDI 1.0 API that pretty much every other app supports.

I'm surprised you weren't aware of that if you are working with BLE MIDI.

The feature I'm talking about is to use it natively in the new SDK/API, with an enhanced feature set.

Pete
Microsoft

already using that system (for some time) ....annoying but it works. Should be native, just like Linux and MacOS -simply turn on your BLE device, and select connect. No creating "pseudo MIDI ports" and links between apps that HAVE to run in the background.

When one is trying to run a very small footprint system (read Surface pro 8 and up) with limited PC resources, every cpu thread is needed!

Even on the "lightest" Apple or Linux system this protocol exists. To be blunt Microsoft SHOULD have devoted the research into getting BLE off the ground and left MIDI 2 to come in after that. MIDI 1 has been working fine for decades!

I mean, you seem like a decent person, got to admit though your response does seem a bit "toeing the factory line" . No timeline on the BLE so it could be two years (or more, or to be fair less ) hence!

[Psychlist1972]

already using that system (for some time) ....annoying but it works. Should be native, just like Linux and MacOS -simply turn on your BLE device, and select connect. No creating "pseudo MIDI ports" and links between apps that HAVE to run in the background.

When one is trying to run a very small footprint system (read Surface pro 8 and up) with limited PC resources, every cpu thread is needed!

Even on the "lightest" Apple or Linux system this protocol exists. To be blunt Microsoft SHOULD have devoted the research into getting BLE off the ground and left MIDI 2 to come in after that. MIDI 1 has been working fine for decades!

I mean, you seem like a decent person, got to admit though your response does seem a bit "toeing the factory line" . No timeline on the BLE so it could be two years (or more, or to be fair less ) hence!

It's not so much toeing the line as just knowing what work is left to be done and who can do it. It's a small team. Network MIDI 2.0 is coming next, and it's likely to be far more important than BLE. I did prototyping with BLE some time ago but haven't rolled that in yet.

Nothing meaningful was changing in MIDI for years until I used MIDI 2.0 to convince people that we could make some real changes to both MIDI 1.0 and MIDI 2.0. That's the reality of that situation. There's always competition for resources for something that will impact a billion or more customers vs something that will impact the much smaller musician community.

In any case, it's more helpful to look forward vs back. We're in better shape now with MIDI than we were 1, 2, 25 years ago. The fact that we have more to do doesn't change that.

Pete
Microsoft

[keys_au1]

.....In any case, it's more helpful to look forward vs back. We're in better shape now with MIDI than we were 1, 2, 25 years ago. The fact that we have more to do doesn't change that.

Pete
Microsoft

Oh I totally agree Pete, always like to move on and forward. Cannot change that which has already happened!

hahah I was just venting my disappointment is all.

I am sure MIDI 2.0 will allow some amazing audio production work to be achieved, rivalling even AI. And I AM looking forward to the first official release.

I've been with Microsoft (as have most here I'd suggest) since MS-DOS and then Windows 2.1 and then onwards

[Grizzellda]

Again, thanks Pete, there is alot here.

Is there any thing you wanna say regarding Windows updates...Can they be turned off?

I would like to keep a production computer offline. Any advice?

Article I wrote 4 years ago on how to control Windows Update on DAW PCs. It's still largely accurate, although it could use some screen shot updates.
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/windows- ... 11-daw-pc/

Keeping your computer offline is only an option if your plugins, DAWs, etc. don't need to phone home to verify licenses.

Pete
Microsoft

Really appreciate this stuff from all you guys...
Looks like Windows 11 Pro then.

[Psychlist1972]

Official Windows MIDI Services announcement.
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... indows-11/

Pete
Microsoft

[Morphulus]

Official Windows MIDI Services announcement.
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... indows-11/

Pete
Microsoft

Thanks Pete, keep up the good work, it's appreciated.

[dellboy]

I booted up my Windows laptop, downloaded a big update, and finally have multi-client MIDI! Great! No longer any need for specialised drivers. In practise it means I can now run a DAW with two MIDI keyboards and two MIDI editors at the same time. Great progress is being made with regard to MIDI. How about audio? Will we be getting native ASIO?

[MMS]

I noticed that Windows 11 currently cannot decide which built-in driver to use for attached USB-MIDI devices. The old one from 2006, the one updated late last year, or the one updated earlier this year. This, amongst other things, screws up the Port names in software like DAWs and editors.

[Tiles]

Have you considered to uninstall these drivers and just install the newest?