This is a strange one. I have spent the last 12 months getting my head around Ableton. I've come from Cubase and I have been amazed at how much new music I have written and completed in Ableton but I have found myself less emotionally immersed in the sheer pleasure of an analog poly with heaps of Valhalla.
I upgraded Cubase today and was just blown away by the massive soundscape of FutureVerb on my Rev-2. I began writing music for a different reason, the immense pleasure of an immediate sound in the moment. I don't want to get into the debate about DAWs sounding different. My own experience is that the difference is staggering. I know the current mantra is that we are all the same but we are not.
Anyhow, if I wanted a MIDI plugin that gave looping/Ableton style functionality inside of another DAW, where should I look?
Ableton but not Ableton
-
- KVRAF
- 5381 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
MuLab PluginWriggle wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 10:07 pmAnyhow, if I wanted a MIDI plugin that gave looping/Ableton style functionality inside of another DAW, where should I look?
It gives that and a lot more
https://www.mutools.com/mulab-plugin-downloads.html
F E E D
Y O U R
F L O W
Y O U R
F L O W
-
- KVRAF
- 1682 posts since 13 Oct, 2003 from Oulu, Finland
Maybe Precyne might be what you're looking for? It's designed from ground up to be used with hardware synths and other hardware gear.
The open beta version 2.0 can be found from the bottom of the web page:
https://www.decyne4.com
(I'm the developer, full disclosure)
The open beta version 2.0 can be found from the bottom of the web page:
https://www.decyne4.com
(I'm the developer, full disclosure)
Misspellers of the world, unit!
https://soundcloud.com/aflecht
https://soundcloud.com/aflecht
-
- KVRist
- 178 posts since 3 Apr, 2024
My own experience is also that they sound different, but somehow when someone mentions this, people export audio files and compare them, and the conclusion is that the files are exactly the same.Wriggle wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 10:07 pm I don't want to get into the debate about DAWs sounding different.
I also have experience with several DAWs, and in my opinion each has its own sound, no matter how many file comparisons and explanations people bring, about 32 bit float calculations and summing etc
I know, you mentioned that you don't want to get into a debate, but this is not a debate, just something that I wanted to mention
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 28 Dec, 2015
No I get where you are coming from. I suspect when the actual files are rendered and exported then they are the same or very similar. The difference for the user is in the live auditory performance of the DAW whilst composing. Cubase and Bitwig are comparable.They sound majestic with Valhalla Shimmer and Futureverb. Logic is a close third. Ableton is shocking. Really low quality. It also seems to be the DAW that gets the most bogged down with processing load having a really bad effect on "latency."
I am on a Mac Studio and don't really want to install anything without the correct certificates so any suggestions beyond Mu would be helpful. I've just bought a MacBook and wonder if I should try running the MacBook on Ableton controlling the MIDI side of things and then process and record the audio on the Mac Studio running Cubase. It's an unnecessary complexity but we do seem to be in a position where there isn't the perfect DAW. Each one is a compromise.
An issue I have asked about on the Ableton forum is that reverbs on sends sound far weaker than in other DAWS. It is almost as if the send levels in Ableton are much lower than other DAWS. There isn't any proper discussion about this for reasons. Perhaps most users don't have experience of other DAWs but the general impression I get is that they don't know what I am talking about. I did a quick export in Cubase 15 of the Rev-2 bathing in around -8dB send of Shimmer and it was so immersive in the reverb compared to the same thing in Ableton maxed out on the send to +6 dB. I appreciate the effect of pre and post sends but Ableton seems to treat processing with a dialled down live algorithm. Bitwig sounds amazing in comparison but there is lots of speculation as to a baked-in problem that is the reason that they are unable to implement retrospective record. Ableton functionality in a plugin would be great, allowing the user to use it in any DAW. It's really very frustrating.
I am on a Mac Studio and don't really want to install anything without the correct certificates so any suggestions beyond Mu would be helpful. I've just bought a MacBook and wonder if I should try running the MacBook on Ableton controlling the MIDI side of things and then process and record the audio on the Mac Studio running Cubase. It's an unnecessary complexity but we do seem to be in a position where there isn't the perfect DAW. Each one is a compromise.
An issue I have asked about on the Ableton forum is that reverbs on sends sound far weaker than in other DAWS. It is almost as if the send levels in Ableton are much lower than other DAWS. There isn't any proper discussion about this for reasons. Perhaps most users don't have experience of other DAWs but the general impression I get is that they don't know what I am talking about. I did a quick export in Cubase 15 of the Rev-2 bathing in around -8dB send of Shimmer and it was so immersive in the reverb compared to the same thing in Ableton maxed out on the send to +6 dB. I appreciate the effect of pre and post sends but Ableton seems to treat processing with a dialled down live algorithm. Bitwig sounds amazing in comparison but there is lots of speculation as to a baked-in problem that is the reason that they are unable to implement retrospective record. Ableton functionality in a plugin would be great, allowing the user to use it in any DAW. It's really very frustrating.
-
- KVRAF
- 5062 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
A DAW which sounds different playing "live" and render the files would have a huge problem...Wriggle wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2026 10:04 pm No I get where you are coming from. I suspect when the actual files are rendered and exported then they are the same or very similar. The difference for the user is in the live auditory performance of the DAW whilst composing. ...
This is simply not the case if a user doesn´t f**k it up...
What some are maybe tricked by hearing some imginary different sound when directly interacting with different DAWs is more the interaction itself (GUI and editing behaviour) respectively if you like it or not... or you have set different values...
I can mix better in certain DAWs than in others... I don´t know the reason but it´s magically the case... but that´s me... not the DAW!
Our hearing is not very precise... much less precise than our eyes... our hearing can be easily cheated by what we see and feel/think/like...
-
- KVRist
- 75 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from London, UK
The OP mentions 1) real time (online) rendering which can be of lesser quality than offline as any SuperCollider user would confirm, 2) (stock) effects that indeed are of varying quality as we all know.
I don’t believe this contravenes what I take as popular wisdom which is offline summing is the same across DAWs (apart from those like Harrison that do things differently) assuming panning law, etc. is the same.
I don’t believe this contravenes what I take as popular wisdom which is offline summing is the same across DAWs (apart from those like Harrison that do things differently) assuming panning law, etc. is the same.
-
- KVRAF
- 9546 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
Do not underestimate psychological factors. If it sounds better for you while composing, just go for it. Your inspiration needs more than a technical specified/defined quality of sound.
My first impression with Live was a disaster, but quickly I found out, it would warp the sound without asking me first. This is a no-go in my opinion. And Bitwig was way more inspiring for me. I still doubt that they sound different if you are aware of disaster defaults, but inspiration is the key. And do not hesitate to use different tools for different tasks. Recording and composing are different in nature...
My first impression with Live was a disaster, but quickly I found out, it would warp the sound without asking me first. This is a no-go in my opinion. And Bitwig was way more inspiring for me. I still doubt that they sound different if you are aware of disaster defaults, but inspiration is the key. And do not hesitate to use different tools for different tasks. Recording and composing are different in nature...
-
- KVRer
- 16 posts since 9 Mar, 2026
My favorite: Bitwig Studio: clip launcher grid, good modulation, very Ableton-ish workflow.
As a plugin, I don't think there is a 1:1 “Session View in a plugin,” but these are somewhat closer: MSuperLooper (MeldaProduction) and Mobius by Circular Labs as suggested above.
As a plugin, I don't think there is a 1:1 “Session View in a plugin,” but these are somewhat closer: MSuperLooper (MeldaProduction) and Mobius by Circular Labs as suggested above.
Stop guessing. Hear what your plugins actually do. — Candela Audio | Litmus
-
- KVRian
- 921 posts since 7 Sep, 2014
I moved to Cubase from Ableton. But for some many big reasons. One of them is scoring to picture...
Ableton is really nice but for me - Cubase
Ableton is really nice but for me - Cubase