Ensoniq DP/4 Emulation Incoming!

[zerocrossing]

I never really expect any plugin emulation to be 1:1, so the fact that he uses a team to check his algorithms isn’t that big of a deal. The DP/4 is a big tone suck, so I hope they don’t emulate that aspect of it so it can be used as an insert effect.

[RobGee]

The developer doesn't even own a DP/4. This was him on GS :

To give you some context on the QA process: I worked with two beta testers who own the hardware, sending audio samples back and forth to verify the sound, and I also had physical access to a DP/4 myself for a limited amount of time.

Shocking, I appreciate the honesty but if he was that hard up surely he could have purchased one and sold it once development was finished.

How is this shocking? What does this have to do with being hard up? When IK made Sunset Sound, they didn't buy the studio. This take is weird. But whatever.

Sending files backwards and forwards all day, yeah whatever!

[whyterabbyt]

Sending files backwards and forwards all day, yeah whatever!

 

Did you come to that conclusion despite not having access to the device development team?

[Uncle E]

How is this shocking? What does this have to do with being hard up? When IK made Sunset Sound, they didn't buy the studio. This take is weird. But whatever.

Sorry, this is a false equivalence. Sunset Sound is based on impulse responses.

[mholloway]

If someone is selling a product as a "painstaking recreation" of "classic hardware" and you then learn they don't even own said hardware / don't have access to it / the hardware has no part in the development process beyond after-the-fact beta testing -- Yes, that is *shocking*. And highly dubious. They verify it sounds accurate based on <checks notes> sending audio samples to two (2!) beta testers that own the hardware? Umm....

What is even more shocking is the people in this thread who read the above facts and reply with "I don't get it, what's the problem?" or worse, denigrate those of us who see this as the Huge Red Flag it absolutely is.

[Krakatau]

Sorry, just remembered I’m not supposed to talk about this.

talk about what ?
talk about what ?

[Seafire Mk2]

If someone is selling a product as a "painstaking recreation" of "classic hardware" and you then learn they don't even own said hardware / don't have access to it / the hardware has no part in the development process beyond after-the-fact beta testing -- Yes, that is *shocking*. And highly dubious. They verify it sounds accurate based on <checks notes> sending audio samples to two (2!) beta testers that own the hardware? Umm....

What is even more shocking is the people in this thread who read the above facts and reply with "I don't get it, what's the problem?" or worse, denigrate those of us who see this as the Huge Red Flag it absolutely is.

All well and good, but he clearly said he had access to one for some time.

Let's stick to facts shall we.

[Seafire Mk2]

Sorry, just remembered I’m not supposed to talk about this.

talk about what ?
talk about what ?

The Usual Suspects and Ensoniq DP/4

It's a big secret

[TemeculaDSP]

If someone is selling a product as a "painstaking recreation" of "classic hardware" and you then learn they don't even own said hardware / don't have access to it / the hardware has no part in the development process beyond after-the-fact beta testing -- Yes, that is *shocking*. And highly dubious. They verify it sounds accurate based on <checks notes> sending audio samples to two (2!) beta testers that own the hardware? Umm....

What is even more shocking is the people in this thread who read the above facts and reply with "I don't get it, what's the problem?" or worse, denigrate those of us who see this as the Huge Red Flag it absolutely is.

Hi mholloway,

I completely understand why you’d be skeptical reading second-hand info, so I'm happy to clarify the hardware situation and my process.

I actually did buy a physical DP/4 unit off eBay (from e-cyclepro), but it unfortunately broke down pretty quickly, so I had to return it for a refund. However, for a 100% digital multi-effects unit like the DP/4, the sound isn't just in the analog components but in the math of the chips.

To get the algorithms dead-on, I ran the original DSP architecture in a custom testing environment. This allowed me to do rigorous analysis that is actually impossible to do with just the physical hardware. For example, I wrote scripts to send massive, automated sweeps of parameters through the DSP, capturing the exact mathematical outputs to verify the formulas.

That is where the "painstaking" part comes in, and where AI helps me. I do all the schematic tracing, architectural analysis, and verification myself. I use AI to scale out the heavy lifting like processing those massive parameter sweeps and building 43 different user interfaces. It takes work that used to require a whole team of engineers and allows a solo developer to do it.

I’m a software engineer with 25 years of experience, and I've been completely transparent on Hacker News and elsewhere about my workflow. I agree with you that there is a lot of low-effort AI "slop" out there right now, but this isn't it. This is rigorous, deep reverse engineering utilizing modern tools.

The proof is ultimately in the audio, and if you have the hardware and want to post some A/B comparisons to show where the emulation falls short, I will gladly work to resolve them!

[mholloway]

All well and good, but he clearly said he had access to one for some time.

Let's stick to facts shall we.

I"m not sure you're aware of the facts, though. Here's his latest:

"I actually did buy a physical DP/4 unit off eBay (from e-cyclepro), but it unfortunately broke down pretty quickly, so I had to return it for a refund. However, for a 100% digital multi-effects unit like the DP/4, the sound isn't just in the analog components but in the math of the chips."


I don't know about you, but that != "he had access to one for some time."

[onerob]

The *original algorithms* are being run in the plugin and the other contributing factors to the sound were checked with owners of the hardware. For $75 I wouldn't be complaining.

[jens]

People for years: "Why is there no DP/4 emulation plugin?"

- "Because it uses custom chips and would need to be reverse-engineered and that is an insane amount of work which those who'd have the required vast expertise for it probably wouldn't want to waste their time on unless it'd be a real passion project for them."

DP/4 arrives thanks to advances in Ai, which help making the project at least somehow manageable for someone who posseses said expertise.

People: "Eeek! - Beware! - the developer is using Ai! - what a scam!"

Priceless!

[pekbro]

He does seem to be putting these out at a rather high rate.

[jens]

He does seem to be putting these out at a rather high rate.

So? Since you most likely don't have the first idea when he started working on each of them I wonder why you would consider this any relevant.... ?

[pekbro]

He does seem to be putting these out at a rather high rate.

So? Since you most likely don't have the first idea when he started working on each of them I wonder why you would consider this any relevant.... ?

I dunno, what he said in that forum seemed pretty clear to me. Anyway, make what u
want of it. I will do the same.

Not even saying using AI is bad, just prefer old fashioned methods and prefer the results generally. YMMV.