When you buy a hardware synth do you actually own all of it?

[Tubeman]

The locked thread got me thinking. Some say you are allowed to use the ROM in these software emulations ONLY if you bought the hardware synth. But is it actually so? I think you don't actually own the ROMs even if they came with the hardware you bought. That raises the question what parts of the hardware you actually own. Do you own the keys? The circuit board? The buttons? The display? I'm thinking the ROM (Read Only Memory) is actually technically as hardware as are those other parts mentioned.

[whyterabbyt]

? I think you don't actually own the ROMs even if they came with the hardware you bought.

The ROM is not the code. A storage device is not the code on that device. The ownership of my computer is not changed just because I install an OS.

Its not a hardware question, its still a software question. All software is stored on hardware. It should properly be a question about whether you have the right to make and use a copy of any software installed on any storage device which comes into your possession.

And if you do insist this is a conversation about hardware, this is the wrong forum.

[IvyBirds]

Firmware is copyrighted, proprietary software embedded by the manufacturer, often restricting modification or access through End User License Agreements (EULA) and Digital Rights Management (DRM)

When you own hardware electronics of any kind not just synths you own the hardware not the embedded software inside

Much like if you buy a new Mac you own the hardware but Apple still owns the OS and just gives you a licence to use it

[Cuauhtli]

Likewise only let them borrow your money as long as you have use of their software.

[Tubeman]

? I think you don't actually own the ROMs even if they came with the hardware you bought.

The ROM is not the code. A storage device is not the code on that device. The ownership of my computer is not changed just because I install an OS.

I think you missed the point: since you apparently don't own the code in the ROM, are you actually free to use the code of your hardware synth in these software synths as some say?

[whyterabbyt]

I think you missed the point:

And yet...

since you apparently don't own the code in the ROM, are you actually free to use the code of your hardware synth in these software synths as some say?

See, that was exactly my point; its actually about the code in the ROM not the ROM that you were talking about when you said

I think you don't actually own the ROMs

You own the ROMs. You dont own the code on the ROMs.

[Tubeman]

since you apparently don't own the code in the ROM, are you actually free to use the code of your hardware synth in these software synths as some say?

See, that was exactly my point; its actually about the code in the ROM not the ROM that you were talking about when you said

You still missed the point of this thread and avoided the question. I do know what a ROM is, people are misusing the term when they talk about updatable synth firmware.

[whyterabbyt]

You still missed the point of this thread

Then your point was incredibly well concealed.

and avoided the question.

Your questions, which are plural in the OP, are as follows

1) When you buy a hardware synth do you actually own all of it?
2) Some say you are allowed to use the ROM in these software emulations ONLY if you bought the hardware synth. But is it actually so?
3) Do you own the keys?
4) The circuit board?
5)The buttons?
6) The display?

I answered 2 quite specifically, as the other questions seemed to be rhetorical icing. The answer was that the ROM is not the code stored on the ROM. Are you unable to infer from that that you dont use the ROM in these softwate emulaions in the first place?

Are you insisting on answers to the other 5 perhaps?

I do know what a ROM is, people are misusing the term when they talk about updatable synth firmware.

So you're using the term incorrectly as well then? You know, given that you're talking about ownership of the actual ROM hardware component and other actual hardware components, in the same breath thus indicating some sort of equivalence?

[whyterabbyt]

and just in case its not clear to you, its an immutable established fact that the thing that legally defines whether someone can reuse code owned by someone else is not ownership of a device which stores that code.
nor is 'ownership' of the code passed to you merely by you owning the device a copy of the code is stored on.

[VladK]

You own hardware. You do not own IP, and do not own any code or samples in its ROM. You can remove the chip and put it anywhere else, but you cannot use its content separately.

[FigBug]

There isn't one answer to this question. It depends on what country you are in and what the EULA says. Be default, you do not have any rights to somebody else's copyrighted material. When you buy the synth, there will be some EULA that gives you some rights to the copyrighted code / sounds. It probably says something like you are restricted to using it with the original hardware. If there is any form of copy protection, then it is illegal to dump the roms in USA/Canada, even for personal use.

[zerocrossing]

You own the material. You don’t own the IP. Think about it like a book. You own the paper, glue and ink, but you don’t own the words. You only bought a license to read them.

[surreal]

This makes it very murky because sampling such a unit and reselling the sounds is also then a grey area as we actually consider the fact of intellectual property and its ownership so the fact is even if you physically buy the hardware unit you dont actually own the sounds if the unit especially romplers. I have never signed a contract when i bought a hardware synth rompler that forbids me to re sample and sell the sounds but... those sounds have been legally licenced by the hardware manufacturer to include and use the unit commercially... so where is the legality or ilegality of all of this?

[conundrum]

..,When you buy the synth, there will be some EULA that gives you some rights to the copyrighted code / sounds. It probably says something like you are restricted to using it with the original hardware. ..,

I don’t recall seeing a EULA with that restriction.

[whyterabbyt]

This makes it very murky because sampling such a unit and reselling the sounds is also then a grey area

not quite. legally, its entirely black and white. the copyright holder on any recordings of sounds that a unit generates is the person who made the original recording.

so:
if the unit does not use any copyrighted sounds, then samples of the unit are copyrighted recordings which belong to the person who sampled it.
if the unit does use copyrighted sound, samples of the unit are derived works, and redistributing them requires permission from the copyright holder.