When you buy a hardware synth do you actually own all of it?

[FigBug]

..,When you buy the synth, there will be some EULA that gives you some rights to the copyrighted code / sounds. It probably says something like you are restricted to using it with the original hardware. ..,

I don’t recall seeing a EULA with that restriction.

Most companies don't seem to post their EULAs online, I just found one for Roland

A. Run the Software only on the hardware for which it was intended to operate, when applicable;

[FigBug]

I have never signed a contract when i bought a hardware synth rompler that forbids me to re sample and sell the sounds but... those sounds have been legally licenced by the hardware manufacturer to include and use the unit commercially... so where is the legality or ilegality of all of this?

Reproducing copyrighted works is illegal by default. No contract required. Usually the EULA will give you additional rights, like freely using the copyrighted materials in a musical work.

[Tubeman]

There isn't one answer to this question. It depends on what country you are in and what the EULA says. Be default, you do not have any rights to somebody else's copyrighted material. When you buy the synth, there will be some EULA that gives you some rights to the copyrighted code / sounds. It probably says something like you are restricted to using it with the original hardware. If there is any form of copy protection, then it is illegal to dump the roms in USA/Canada, even for personal use.

Did you sign an EULA when you bought a hardware device? I sure didn't. I don't think EULAs are universally legally valid anyway in every situation and country. They need to refer to the copyright etc. law in the specific country they are selling their product. Ofc you can write about anything there but it doesn't mean it's legally valid.

[IvyBirds]

There isn't one answer to this question. It depends on what country you are in and what the EULA says. Be default, you do not have any rights to somebody else's copyrighted material. When you buy the synth, there will be some EULA that gives you some rights to the copyrighted code / sounds. It probably says something like you are restricted to using it with the original hardware. If there is any form of copy protection, then it is illegal to dump the roms in USA/Canada, even for personal use.

Did you sign an EULA when you bought a hardware device? I sure didn't. I don't think EULAs are universally legally valid anyway in every situation and country. They need to refer to the copyright etc. law in the specific country they are selling their product. Ofc you can write about anything there but it doesn't mean it's legally valid.

Under the Berne Convention, copyright protection is assumed (automatic) under international law, and that has nearly 200 member countries

You don't have to sign a EULA because they already automatically retain all the rights to their work and are giving you permission to use their code/software, and the EULA spells out what they are allowing you to do with it

You don't need to recognize the EULA or sign it because by default they have 100% legal authority over their own code in every country globally with the exceptions of Angola, East Timor (Timor-Leste), Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, Kosovo, Marshall Islands, Palau, Somalia, and South Sudan.

The EULA is simply granting you rights by the author/publisher/developer/manufacturer, you don't get to grant yourself extra rights to their copyrighted materials and Intellectual Property

It simply spells out exactly what you can or can not do

The only exception would be if the EULA was trying to take rights you are legally allowed to have in the country your legally purchased it from. For example in the USA consumers have a legal right to make backup copies of digital files. This includes software or things like DVDs. Sometimes EULAs attempted to take that right away but the courts didn't allow it

That doesn't however give me the right to give my backup copy to others for their use

[Weasel-Boy]

That doesn't however give me the right to give my backup copy to others for their use

Unless, I guess, if you live in the Marshall Islands?

[DCrown]

Whenever I bought an instrument or hardware synth, I never really thought I own it.
That's just the way I consider it.
Owning is a very capitalist term.
Ownership.is a burden and responsibility!
On my Yamaha synths, you can clearly see the name of the owner: YAMAHA in big letters.
I paid for the right to take the instrument at home or on stage to.play it or record music with it.
If Yamaha sent me an email they want their instrument back, I would have to give it back, but they would probably never do.

[surreal]

So then every sample library by definition is illegal and illigitimate?

[surreal]

Whenever I bought an instrument or hardware synth, I never really thought I own it.
That's just the way I consider it.
Owning is a very capititalist term.
On my Yamaha synth, you can clearly see the name of the owner: YAMAHA in big letters.
I paid for the right to take the instrument at home or on stage to.play it or record music with it.
If Yamaha sent me an email they want their instrument back, I would have to give it back, but they would probably never do.

There is no way that i would return a unit that i spent hard sweat and blood to pay it.. There is nothing signed, no eula ..nada and there is no subscription when a unit bought outright.. otherwise everything can might as well devolve to subscription based software... and then further to ai because no body owns anything, has no rights and everyone is extremely happy (not)

[IvyBirds]

That doesn't however give me the right to give my backup copy to others for their use

Unless, I guess, if you live in the Marshall Islands?

True of course you also couldn't distribute anything outside of the Marshall Islands

[DCrown]

It is just a way I consider it.

Ownership.is a burden and responsibility!
I prefer the feeling of freedom, so I consider Yamaha the owner.

You spent your hard earned money?
A dev and manufacturer of instruments gives you the right and honor to play their Instruments, isn't it worth your money?
Why did you buy it?
To say you are the owner or to play it?!

[surreal]

It is just a way I consider it.

Ownership.is a burden and responsibility!
I prefer the feeling of freedom, so Inonsider Yamaha the owner.

See our Generation shift shows, Ownership is a privilage and responsibility is an honor!

[IvyBirds]

Whenever I bought an instrument or hardware synth, I never really thought I own it.
That's just the way I consider it.
Owning is a very capitalist term.
Ownership.is a burden and responsibility!
On my Yamaha synths, you can clearly see the name of the owner: YAMAHA in big letters.
I paid for the right to take the instrument at home or on stage to.play it or record music with it.
If Yamaha sent me an email they want their instrument back, I would have to give it back, but they would probably never do.

That's not the way it works you own the hardware not Yamaha, you are free to do with the hardware whatever you wish. Yamaha owns the copyright to the samples and the code/software inside of it

You are free to use the hardware as intended to play music live and record songs, you can't however make your own hardware and load Yamaha's onto it for resale, or rip the sample library out of the ROM and resell it

[DCrown]

It is just a way I consider it.

Ownership.is a burden and responsibility!
I prefer the feeling of freedom, so Inonsider Yamaha the owner.

See our Generation shift shows, Ownership is a privilage and responsibility is an honor!

I know people they own so many things that they are not far from collapsing under that burden and the responsibility to care and protect all they own is the opposite of relaxing.

It is just a different mindset! I know how capitalism works.

[surreal]

It is just a way I consider it.

Ownership.is a burden and responsibility!
I prefer the feeling of freedom, so I consider Yamaha the owner.

You spent your hard earned money?
A dev and manufacturer of instruments gives you the right and honor to play their Instruments, isn't it worth your money?
Why did you buy it?
To say you are the owner or to play it?!

To have unlimited possesion, access and to play it at MY time at my terms with no strings attached and no company telling me what a i can or cant do and no compter operating system getting in the way... the freedom to create with what I paid for

[IvyBirds]

So then every sample library by definition is illegal and illigitimate?

Nope not as long as when it was created it didn't violate anyone else's intellectual property rights and you legally obtained it and have a legal license to use it

For example you can sample a real violin played by a real person and sell it, but you can't rip the violin samples out of a Yamaha Montage ROM and sell them as they belong to Yamaha

However you can make a violin sound using the FM Synthesis engine inside of a Montage, sample that and sell it because there is no copyright from actual synthesis generated by DSP or analog Oscillators