KVR Audio

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:39 am

Well, I don't want to start a flame war with anyone, but I really can't help but mention something.

Recently I've decided to further my musical education, and I'm currently attending SAE Nashville, where I live.

Over the past couple weeks, I've got to talking to many of the people in the class just to see what software they use at home. And almost everyone I talked to has openly admitted to using cracked software. They don't hide it. They even think it's funny.

Now, don't get me wrong. I used to use illegal software. That was a long time today. However, if you look on my computer now, you won't find a SINGLE stolen software or cracked software or whatever. If I want something, I save for it and pay for it. If I can't afford it, I don't use it. Or I use open source software or freeware(I can replace almost every type of program there is, just ask if you want specifics). I guess you can say I've seen the light.

The truth is, there is no logical reason to use cracks in these days. Looking back, and listening to these people, I can't believe how dumb I was. And I guess that if I was able to finally see the truth, so can they. But I just didn't realize how many people don't pay for their software. And I dind't realize at the time the mistake I was making.

Really, there's no point to this post. I had the day off and ran out of patience with my current mix, and my wife is busy watching TV, so I thought I'd post here. Without getting into heavy insults or arguing, does anyone have any thoughts?(I really could be asking for it here)

Sorry if I've wasted anybody's time.
Koolkeys

SaviorNeeded · Post by **SaviorNeeded** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:12 am

I think most everyone at KVR agrees with you, koolkeys. Unless you mean, did we have thoughts about your wife watching TV?

I think, though, it's good to post thots like this now and then just to encourage others to keep up the good work of not using warez.

Tom

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:53 am

I guess I'm not wondering if people agree or not, as I'm sure most do. I don't even know why I posted really. I guess it just kind of surprised me that all these people who are claiming to be so serious about their career would do this. I know some won't make it through the course, but it caught me off guard to hear these possible future professionals openly talking about this and being proud of it.

Koolkeys

XDVarenkor · Post by **XDVarenkor** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:07 am

Snap.

I used to be those people (like you) and now I don't touch warez (like you don't) and find the people that still do morally reprehensible (like you do).

We're probably like ex-smokers; happy on our moral highground and annoying to everyone else, but I'm still happy to be supporting an industry that has given me so much pleasure - and secure in the knowledge that if I release any music my system can be audited by anyone who sees fit and I won't lose a cent in legal proceedings.

Stay strong in the struggle!

p.s. Have you noticed how non-cracked software is usually a lot more stable? I struggled for ages with a couple of plugins that used to chew CPU, then when I bought them found the real versions vastly more efficient. Was pretty happy about that.

ahja · Post by **ahja** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:08 am

Well... If you wanna hear something really disturbing.
I went to a school similar to SAE a few years ago, and it was the same there. Everyone was using cracks... The disturbing part is I witnessed instructors passing on cracks to students on numerous occasions.

Really sad.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:10 am

I don't use any cracked software either ...anymore.

I used to have everything.

a: it killed my creativity
b: it made me feel like a shitbag
c: it f**ked my computer up

I buy stuff now, and the KvR market place is very good for things like that

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:14 am

With internet (especially broadband), it's so easy to set yourself up with worthwhile freeware that I also don't understand using cracks.

There are also great bargains to be had-- in my current setup of "bargains":

-Paint Shop Pro 5 (magazineware)
-Drive Copy 5.5 (magazineware)
-Systemworks 2000 7 ($9.99 CDN-- it doesn't work with XP, but I bought it for Ghost, which runs from DOS anyhow)
-RealDraw Pro (just purchased)
-Tracktion
-eXT
-Elevayta plugs

Then, as you mentioned, there's specific freeware (OpenOffice, for starters) that can replace commercial stuff easily, elegantly, and competently.

Greg

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:15 am

Well back in the day, there wasn't so much free stuff available, and the stuff that was there was shit.

But now.. well, you guys really seem to know your stuff!!

XDVarenkor · Post by **XDVarenkor** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:45 am

Lunch Money wrote:Then, as you mentioned, there's specific freeware (OpenOffice, for starters) that can replace commercial stuff easily, elegantly, and competently.

Greg

Hear, hear! OpenOffice rocks! (Well, as much as an Office replacement *can* rock, anyway...)

I must agree with the earlier comment about piracy killing creativity. Downloading warez is so easy it becomes about the getting - not about the having. I have a lot less VST gear now than I used to, but I know how to use it all and get the best results from it. I'm no longer kidding myself that downloading the hot new commercial synth and not paying for it is in some way a musical achievement.

Have you guys on music courses considered reporting the piracy you're witnessing?

Sensational · Post by **Sensational** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:00 am

I have always heard about people using crack soft. Where do they get the links from for this? I have never seen a crack version of the popular software thats out there?

Hewitt Huntwork · Post by **Hewitt Huntwork** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:05 am

I still wonder when I'm going to have the dough-re-mi for Atmosphere (or lots of other plugs, for that matter). I know people talk about warez here from time to time, but the idea that some soft synth or other is out there to be stolen doesn't occur to me any more than the fact that the street is full of cars I'd rather be driving than my poopmobile. I'm just not wired that way.

Conversely, I've had shows where someone has said they didn't have the money to buy my CD, and I've given it to them. Don't get me wrong, money is awesome! But having something that you can afford to give away is a true blessing.

I'm really tired, and I sound like a bigger hippie than Multree

, so I'll STFU now.

pooshka · Post by **pooshka** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:17 am

just a few points that i thought of,

1. one can use cracked software to learn/develop his skills, e.g., by using cracked software, even poor people can get their hands on professional software tools and practice using them, and consequently, their ears/skills in using production tools would improve. as a more specific example, person A can really get to know Cubase inside out by using cracked software without having to actually pay for the product or pay fees to register to a course/learning centre that holds valid license - how do you think such a practice is different from someone reading a pirate copy of philosophy book to polish his philosophical skills?

the point i'm trying to get across is that at least theoretically, cracked software users do not necessarily have to use these softwares to create music for profit or for any economic gain - but they could be using those only to improve their production skills and familiarise themselves with professional tools (maybe for future career or as a hobby). in this case, the main focus here is on person A's development in his skills/knowledge/experience - so from an educational point of view, is it a necessarily a good/justifiable thing that we limit the resources of learning to only those who can afford to pay?

obvious counter-argument i can think of at this point is probably 'academic license' or 'educational license', where you could get the same software cheaper or for free as long as you sign the agreement saying that these softwares will not be used commercially, but only act as resources for learning.

2. software is infinitely duplicable without loss of its quality/functionality during the process - once a software is out in public domain to be purchased, the whole notion of 'supply-demand' completely fail to justify its retail price. i.e. the only 'limitedness' of supply in software products is there because someone somewhere along the line decided to limit and tie the usage of this tool/resource to economics. hence whenever we consider software products within the framework of material economy that we've been familiar with for centuries and centuries, we also have to be aware that all we are doing is extending the hegemony of material economy

not here to defend use of cracked software really.. but just thought there is more to this dillema then a simple 'cracked software's not right' :p

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:25 am

pooshka wrote:but they could be using those only to improve their production skills and familiarise themselves with professional tools (maybe for future career or as a hobby).

The point some would make is that they're getting an advantage in that they're not paying to learn what professionals paid to learn.

Of course those people are corporate whores who are only into music for the money.

pooshka · Post by **pooshka** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:33 am

Acolmiztli wrote:The point some would make is that they're getting an advantage in that they're not paying to learn what professionals paid to learn.

well, in general i think... if someone finds a free way to do something for which I paid for... then hey, power to them.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:35 am

pooshka wrote:
Acolmiztli wrote:The point some would make is that they're getting an advantage in that they're not paying to learn what professionals paid to learn.
well, in general i think... if someone finds a free way to do something for which I paid for... then hey, power to them.

Other people aren't so tolerant

More people do this than I thought.....