More people do this than I thought.....

[XDVarenkor]

I have always heard about people using crack soft. Where do they get the links from for this? I have never seen a crack version of the popular software thats out there?

Sure, like we're just going to advertize where this stuff is available. Sounds like we've got ourselves an 'interested party'.

And that stuff about cracked software being a good means to develop skills on professional tools? I seem to remember Radium, Oxygen, and all those other crackers using that excuse too. It would be hypocritical of me to damn such logic outright since - in hindsight - that's how I learned, but the freeware is there now. And think about it:

You can learn a lot about Photoshop from GIMP and Photoshop Elements.

What will a pirate copy of ImpOscar teach you about synthesis that you won't learn from PolyIblit?

At $99.00 is WusikStation *really* too expensive? If you can't afford the tools you're probably in the wrong game anyway. You can't play polo if you can't afford to keep two horses - what's the difference?

[bugs]

The first thing I tell my students is that the last thing you want to be convicted of as a composer is copyright infringement--it's a real career ender.

[morelia]

What will a pirate copy of ImpOscar teach you about synthesis that you won't learn from PolyIblit?

Sounds like we've got ourselves an 'interested party'.

[rpc9943]

I must admit I used to too. I used cool edit pro and then i was like damn it i want to make money with this and be a producer. So i bought it. Then i found tracktion, bought that, and went from there.

My last warezed program was AWAVE. I felt so bad about it so i bought ESC and dumped awave

RoNC

[herodotus]

Okay, two points before I take the leap:

1. I have no software on my computer that was not obtained legally and I wouldn't know how to get it in an illegal way even if I wanted to. Personally I am just trying to make sense of the stuff that I already have.

2. I do not in any way support the use of what everyone for some reason calls "warez"

That being said.........

I really think that the overwhelming righteous indignation on the part of software developers should be tempered by the knowledge that copyright law IS EXTREMELY SKEWED IN YOUR FAVOR!!!

I mean think about it. Copyright law was first created to encourage writers to share their work with the world. But think of the situation of your average fiction writer: It is illegal to make a copy of, say, a John Grisham book. But it is perfectly legal to lend your copy to a friend. And it is perfectly legal for libraries to lend out copies for as long as they exist. Now very few people want to rumple and fetish their John Grisham books (or Tom Clancy books, or whoevers books) as a treasured possession. You read this kind of book once and move on. And so I have read EVERY SINGLE JOHN GRISHAM BOOK WITHOUT BUYING A SINGLE ONE OF THEM. And this is not illegal or immoral.

And so the fact that I can not "copy" such a book legally is irrelevant. Why would I? But why in gods name would I buy it either?

And so I guess what I am asking is: if John Grisham isn't being ripped off, why are "warez" so utterly, totally, monstrously, evil?

If "warez" are totally evil than isn't John Grisham suffering from a technical loophole in the copyright law? I mean where does his income come from when anyone can read his books for free just by going to a library and checking them out? Should this loophole be closed? And what are the implications of closing it?

Again, I am all for paying for ones software!!!
I am against stealing software, because I know that it can put developers out of business.

Developers!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!! I will give you as much of my money as my wife lets me!!!

I guess I am just trying to bring some historical perspective to the argument.

Plus I am a natural devils advocate.

[bastien]

isn't John Grisham suffering from a technical loophole in the copyright law? I mean where does his income come from when anyone can read his books for free just by going to a library and checking them out? Should this loophole be closed?

I'm sure there's some Loonytaria, somewhere, who's using exactly that argument right now. I guess the best we can do is not encourage them...

[Reverse Engineer]

I couldn't care less who uses warez or not, just like i couldn't care less who downloads music illicitly.

99% of what i use are freebies cos i love the fact they are updated so frequently and they (god only knows why though) seem to use a lot less resources and don't have gui's that you need ten monitors to view.

Some games cost millions to develop but the highest price you'll see is about 40-50 pounds (and that's the extreme end of the market/special 90 disc editions etc.)

The prices they charge for a lot of music/audio software is so ridiculous they deserve to be ripped off. You can say, but it's a small market etc, so f**k, a lot of software has a tiny market, but they still dont charge 300 quid for a stupid arsed "analogue replicator wankbag". Plus, a lot of the software uses more or less the same engines as their other products cancelling out any development costs.

You want to use warez? go for it, and don't feel your compromising your morals in the least. an eye for an eye as they say.

But bear in mind who you rip off.....if the company is fair, you should be too.

[hello1234]

It's a double edged sword ya know........150 years ago I had some pirated stuff and didn't think twice about it. It wasn't commonly thought of as stealing. But the RIAA geztapo actually did some good at putting fear into some people (although they still should be shot and mass burried)

I hate software companies for the most part .....HATE THEM HATE THEM HATE THEM. Most are arrogant and jaded and don't care if you have problems or not.........BUT.......

that is why allot are jaded and assholes....they keep getting ripped off. So I just buy it or live without it.
BTW, don't most of you find it refreshing that there are so many good demos out there? It's been helping me allot recently........

[Amberience]

Y'know, that is a very good point.

Why is copyright law different for software?

Of course, software is easily transferable, and because of the internet, people in totally different countries can swap files. Not so easy with a book though.

This would suggest that copyright law is applied in a subjective manner, which for any law shouldn't be the case - otherwise it isn't a law, but a preference/bias/predilection.

Its fine for me to lend my friend a book... or is it? Is it against the law, but the fact that its so common in society that the law becomes duller in its effect - no one would even bother to sue a "lender" because its commonplace for people to borrow books.

So that begs the question, why not the same for software?

I guess its because of duplication.

You can't easily duplicate a book - its a singular item. If I lend a book out, I have no ability to read that book without getting it again from elsewhere. If the person I lent it to doesn't give it back, then he becomes the new user - I don't have the ability to use the book, so any claim over it I make is void.

With software however, a friend could make a copy, and keep it for himself. Therefore creating two of the same item - which means the loss of a sale. Remember, no matter how many times a book changes hands, a purchase HAS been made somewhere along the line.

In the software realm though, because of duplication, millions of copies of the same software can be made without providing income for the author.

This is why its deemed illegal. If there was a way to guarantee that for each copy of the software, the developer recieved some recompense, no one would care about how many copies existed. It would be similar to a library.

It boils down to this: A book is hard and time consuming to copy, so many people wouldn't even bother. A CD or DVD is a piece of piss to copy. Put it in, copy with your software, voila, you've got a copy of it.

So in the bigger picture, its obvious that the authories and industries have shot themselves in the foot. By inventing home CD burners, the internet, and broadband connections, they've given the ability to commit theft to people.

Of course all this stuff is invented because of consumer demand - we ask for this stuff as a society. We convince ourselves we need a DVD burner.

Friend 1: "Wow! That film was AWESOME!"
Friend 2: "Yeah! I could watch that every week!"
Friend 3: "Me too. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could all just make a copy."
Friend 1: "Yeah... wish there were DVD burner's available."

....

They bow down to our requirements - looking after us, so that we remain subservient.

[herodotus]

I REALLY DO NOT SEE WHY ANYONE HAS TO STEAL ANYTHING!


I too think that, say, Nuendo is absurdly overpriced, but I am not going to steal it, any more than I would steal a fender twin reverb.

But the point is that there is an assload of totally free shit that gives the thoughtful person resources that the Beatles would have coveted (after you took the time to explain it all)!

[Amberience]

I REALLY DO NOT SEE WHY ANYONE HAS TO STEAL ANYTHING!


I too think that, say, Nuendo is absurdly overpriced, but I am not going to steal it, any more than I would steal a fender twin reverb.

But the point is that there is an assload of totally free shit that gives the thoughtful person resources that the Beatles would have coveted (after you took the time to explain it all)!

Certain types of personalities are just plain selfish. Or maybe selfish isn't the right word, but they don't know how to control their desire.

That is why they steal - because its part of their nature. They're socially and/or genetically dispositioned to want things - and if they don't have the means to get them legally, they'll use other methods.

[Reverse Engineer]

I REALLY DO NOT SEE WHY ANYONE HAS TO STEAL ANYTHING!


I too think that, say, Nuendo is absurdly overpriced, but I am not going to steal it, any more than I would steal a fender twin reverb.

But the point is that there is an assload of totally free shit that gives the thoughtful person resources that the Beatles would have coveted (after you took the time to explain it all)!

Certain types of personalities are just plain selfish. Or maybe selfish isn't the right word, but they don't know how to control their desire.

That is why they steal - because its part of their nature. They're socially and/or genetically dispositioned to want things - and if they don't have the means to get them legally, they'll use other methods.

I learned my lesson there I was so greedy, yet very poor i sold my arse to any passing gay/curious men just so i could get vsti's. After stopping doing that, i took up shoplifting deoderant to sell cut price so i could feed my habit

Yeah....personality traits indeed. junior psychologists really turn me on :X

"The enemy of interpretation is convention - If you're going to say something, be prepared to back it up with whatever made you say it, otherwise don't say it at all" Nice quote, shame you don't follow its protocol.

[herodotus]

C'mon guys, lets not fight.

We're MUSICIANS for gods sake!!

We are PEACEFUL, GODDAMMIT!!!

PEEEEECEFUUUULLLLL!!!!!

[pHz]

C'mon guys, lets not fight.
We're MUSICIANS for gods sake!!
We are PEACEFUL, GODDAMMIT!!!
PEEEEECEFUUUULLLLL!!!!!

yeah ... listen to the man ...

... you should be proud so far at least - a 2 page warez thread i havent had to lock yet ...

slainte rob

[Amberience]

I REALLY DO NOT SEE WHY ANYONE HAS TO STEAL ANYTHING!


I too think that, say, Nuendo is absurdly overpriced, but I am not going to steal it, any more than I would steal a fender twin reverb.

But the point is that there is an assload of totally free shit that gives the thoughtful person resources that the Beatles would have coveted (after you took the time to explain it all)!

Certain types of personalities are just plain selfish. Or maybe selfish isn't the right word, but they don't know how to control their desire.

That is why they steal - because its part of their nature. They're socially and/or genetically dispositioned to want things - and if they don't have the means to get them legally, they'll use other methods.

I learned my lesson there I was so greedy, yet very poor i sold my arse to any passing gay/curious men just so i could get vsti's. After stopping doing that, i took up shoplifting deoderant to sell cut price so i could feed my habit

Yeah....personality traits indeed. junior psychologists really turn me on :X

"The enemy of interpretation is convention - If you're going to say something, be prepared to back it up with whatever made you say it, otherwise don't say it at all" Nice quote, shame you don't follow its protocol.

Ok.

So if people don't steal because they want things, then why do they steal Mr. Smart arse??



There are other reasons of course. Some people get a kick out of causing distress, other people want to "fight" the system. But primarily in the VST world, people steal because they want to use what they consider the "best" software.

Everheard of Kleptomania -another reason people steal.

As for following the protocol, I believe you should afford me the opportunity to provide that which made me say all that stuff, before asserting that I didn't follow the protocol .

PHZ: This isn't a warez thread. There are no links to warez, no advice on how to get warez, so it does not need locking.

Move it to the Hyde Park forum if you must, but there is nothing in this thread that is against the rules.