The rise of Linux desktop is inevitable — it’s time music software developers got on board

[mcbpete]

So who here might agree that perhaps the real reason Windows is still relevant and dominates the desktop is simple because it comes preinstalled on just about every new computer?

And furthermore, have you ever wondered what it must take to incentivize OEMs to do that?

Also this sort of thing happens when the general public are given a choice:

[audiojunkie]

So who here might agree that perhaps the real reason Windows is still relevant and dominates the desktop is simple because it comes preinstalled on just about every new computer?

And furthermore, have you ever wondered what it must take to incentivize OEMs to do that?

Also this sort of thing happens when the general public are given a choice:

Depends upon the person and their knowledge and skill level. I used Linux and open-source software-only throughout the second time I went to university, and I did just fine, and graduated with no problems.

I wouldn't recommend anyone start university on Linux without knowing how to use Linux. That's just common sense, and not the fault of the OS. This is completely her fault. That's like saying, "Hey! I'm gonna rely completely on something that I don't know anything about to get myself through university! See how smart I am?"

Furthermore, you have to actually look diligently to find systems that come with Linux installed by default, instead of Windows. I can't imagine anyone here being so dumb that they go and buy a computer without looking over the specs. Can you? Any of you? This was totally on her.

Edit: What's more, how old is this Youtube video?! Look how thick that computer is! When was the last time anyone sold a CD player built into a laptop? Open office 2.3?! Ubuntu 7.1?! Things are so much better now on Linux, than the old days. Sorry, but the more I look at the video, the more I find that this just doesn't stand up.



"I’m told I lie constantly when I say Linux is great — which is wild, because I’m apparently “misleading” you with things like: it boots, it runs my audio workflow, it stays stable, it gets updates, and it keeps existing despite being declared dead every year since forever. Also yes, it’s “too hard,” “too niche,” “no devs will ever care,” and “Linus complained once,” so clearly I must be fabricating my entire operating system out of pure delusion."
-----The Delusional Linux Advocate

[machinesworking]

Mac OS was at around 5% in 2000.

Yeah and how many billions of dollars do you think it has cost Apple in marketing to make those gains? Who is going to pay for Linux's marketing?



And these are real numbers for the whole world, where most of us live -

You chose a weird stat there, do you really think use of mac OS went up and down by 2% over the course of a year, or was that sales? my guess is you pulled up a sales number instead of an installed in the home number. Doesn't really matter though, the point remains that was Apple three to four times smaller in market share 20 years ago.

Every version of Windows uses less and less system resources. I've not seen the figures lately but between XP and Windows 8 they had reduced it's footprint by one-third. The whole "bloatware" thing is complete bullshit.

For being "OS agnostic" by your own words you really don't seem to be in practice.

Windows 95 had an installation size of about 19 MB and required around 50-55 MB of hard drive space. In contrast, Windows 11 requires significantly more resources, typically needing at least 64 GB of storage for installation.

I'm not a Linux user as you well know, but I do not see it as a non starter, especially with all the phone home stuff in Windows these days, and the aforementioned well discussed slash and burn policies of Mac OS. Maybe not in our time using computers with music but I could easily see 25 years from now a significant portion of the user base switching to an OS that you can block from surveillance and marketing. Things are getting weird and an OS not beholden to Palentir affiliated administrations and built in spyware is going to seem more and more attractive among other reasons. Not everything is marketing.

[Largos]

You don't need to edit config files as root.

Um, what does that even mean?

Config files are text files to specify settings with. Editing them "as root" means you change the settings for the whole system, you need to do this with passworded admin access. You don't do this with a gui text editor because it messes with things.

In the user level section of the file system, you can edit config files that only affects the specific user. This overrides the system config just for said user. You also can use a gui text editor because the files can be opened without a password,

The latter is better because it's more user friendly and if anything goes really wrong at user config level, you can just create a fresh user. Having user level config also makes it easier for applications to configure. The main reason for the former is if you want to configure multiple users at once.

So, pipewire config files are edited in the user level directories. j_e_g was confused because he hasn't used pipewire, he just likes to type on forums about it.

[ghettosynth]

So who here might agree that perhaps the real reason Windows is still relevant and dominates the desktop is simple because it comes preinstalled on just about every new computer?

And furthermore, have you ever wondered what it must take to incentivize OEMs to do that?

Also this sort of thing happens when the general public are given a choice:

This thread is also a good reason why I'm not a Linux "advocate." You should not try or swap to Linux. If it's not completely obvious to you that you need it, you should stick with Windows or Mac.

[audiojunkie]

So who here might agree that perhaps the real reason Windows is still relevant and dominates the desktop is simple because it comes preinstalled on just about every new computer?

And furthermore, have you ever wondered what it must take to incentivize OEMs to do that?

Also this sort of thing happens when the general public are given a choice:

This thread is also a good reason why I'm not a Linux "advocate." You should not try or swap to Linux. If it's not completely obvious to you that you need it, you should stick with Windows or Mac.

That's ok. To each his/her own. If we get right down to it, here's the definition of "advocate":

An advocate is a person who publicly supports, recommends, or defends a specific cause, policy, or group. They act as a voice for others—or themselves—to ensure interests are represented, frequently in legal, healthcare, or social contexts. As a verb, it means to actively recommend or plead for a cause.

The part that I'm most concerned about is "to ensure interests are represented". For example, since Linux works as well as Windows and MacOS these days, I push for more audio software to be developed. To do that, I remind people that Linux is not like it used to be. It has advanced to the point that it runs DAW host and plugins just as well as any other OS. I personally use it myself, and I almost never have problems.

I also recognize that Linux isn't for everyone. Some people just want things to work and then get on with their lives. I would usually not recommend Linux for those kinds of people. However, there are some people who have an idea as to what they want to do and how they want to do it, and they have the technical inclination. These are the people that I would recommend giving Linux a try.

I also see obvious trolls who purposely try to muddy the Linux name. They have no other purpose than to try to dissuade people from looking into Linux. Those are some of the things that I try to help prospective Linux users with--to help them understand that it's not like the trolls see it--"broken alpha level software that doesn't work and doesn't have software for it."

I really have no other things in mind than that. I like Linux, and I don't have problems with it. I used to have problems years ago, but things have gotten so much better for me. And when I say that, I got called a liar. I say that Windows ASIO programs can work on Linux, and I'm told that I'm misrepresenting things--and that Linux doesn't support ASIO. I could go on and on, but you get the point. I can understand why you don't want to be an advocate. But I've personally helped approximately 20 different developers to see that its not that difficult to support Linux. We have several very nice programs available on Linux just from the things I've said and done. And I'm not alone--there are many of us that are doing this, and the number of Linux applications and plugins are going daily. This is a catch-22, however, because developers want to make money on their products, so helping users investigate linux is beneficial to all Linux users and the ecosystem itself. The way I see it, by educating the general public, and assisting others, we are able to overcome the catch-22 and get more apps and users at the same time.

Now, undoubtably, someone will come and try to poo poo on whatever I say. So I've got to let people determine the truth themselves, by helping them wherever possible when they investigate linux. They try on their own, gain their own opinion, and are able to see beyond the negativity to the truth--Linux is awesome, but there's a learning curve to it.

So, to each his own. I don't try to force anyone to be an "advocate". I don't think Linux is for everyone. However, those who are interested, I'm here to help.




"I’m told I lie constantly when I say Linux is great — which is wild, because I’m apparently “misleading” you with things like: it boots, it runs my audio workflow, it stays stable, it gets updates, and it keeps existing despite being declared dead every year since forever. Also yes, it’s “too hard,” “too niche,” “no devs will ever care,” and “Linus complained once,” so clearly I must be fabricating my entire operating system out of pure delusion."
-----The Delusional Linux Advocate

[Tiles]

Short version: calling yourself an advocate doesn’t justify misleading people.

You’re not just advocating, you’re doing it in the worst possible way by presenting half-truths and false claims as facts. Framing criticism as “trolling” and flaming everybody who just points the slightest at your lies while overselling Linux is not helping anyone, it’s just misinforming people.

If you actually want to help, be honest about both strengths and limitations instead of pushing a narrative.

[Zeisner]

Turns out CachyOS is just as broken as all the other distros I tried. The usual lags after 30-60 minutes, crashes and freezes if CPU usage goes above 50 % and so on. Even for simple text editing it's useless. Moving on to Pop!_OS as the last test distro, then I'm done with Linux once and for all. What a joke. Even the most broken Windows ME installations were faster and more stable.

[audiojunkie]

Short version: calling yourself an advocate doesn’t justify misleading people.

You’re not just advocating, you’re doing it in the worst possible way by presenting half-truths and false claims as facts. Framing criticism as “trolling” and flaming everybody who just points the slightest at your lies while overselling Linux is not helping anyone, it’s just misinforming people.

If you actually want to help, be honest about both strengths and limitations instead of pushing a narrative.

Please post an example of me flaming someone. Just one--I don't need more. You say that I'm flaming everybody, which is misleading in itself, but I'd like to see just one. We'll let everyone here judge if it is a flame or not, and who is misleading whom.

And I'm not lying. Just because you say it, doesn't mean it is true. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. You call me a liar. Granted, English is not your first language, so you may not understand the language as well as native speakers, but let's get the semantics down. A lie is: "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive". So, you believe not only that I am making an untrue statement, but you also believe that I have an intent to deceive. Let's see you prove my intent. Again, we can let the forum users judge, rather than the Chat GPT you like to spew.

I am currently opening myself right now to complete criticism. You convince everyone that your accusations are true. If you do, I'll promise to change how I react. But if you don't, you have to stop harassing me from now on. Again, we'll let the forum be the judge and jury.

I maintain that I have not purposely tried to lie. I also maintain that I have not flamed everybody. I also maintain that you have been purposely trolling me, which is as wrong as anything else that has been mentioned. BTW, by my definition, using Chat GPT to purposely be contrary is in my definition trolling. We can also let the forum be the judge of that. Don't try to change past statements, because everyone will know and see your edits and know the truth.




"I’m told I lie constantly when I say Linux is great — which is wild, because I’m apparently “misleading” you with things like: it boots, it runs my audio workflow, it stays stable, it gets updates, and it keeps existing despite being declared dead every year since forever. Also yes, it’s “too hard,” “too niche,” “no devs will ever care,” and “Linus complained once,” so clearly I must be fabricating my entire operating system out of pure delusion."
-----The Delusional Linux Advocate

[Tiles]

Your memory is incredibly short. Do we really have to talk about ASIO again? And how you freaked out then?

And please learn reading, the sentence does not end after "everybody".

You’re trying very hard to reframe this as some kind of courtroom drama, but it’s not. Nobody needs to “prove intent” to call out obvious behavior. If your posts come across as misleading or aggressive, people will react accordingly, regardless of how you personally define “lying” or “flaming.”.

Also, hiding behind technical definitions while throwing around accusations like “trolling” and implying others can’t understand English isn’t exactly helping your case. That’s the kind of tone people are reacting to.

If you genuinely want this to stop, drop the meta-arguments and stick to the actual topic instead of turning everything into a personal back-and-forth. Otherwise, you’re just reinforcing the criticism you say is unfair.

[j_e_g]

Please post an example of me flaming someone. Just one--I don't need more.

You claimed I had a "linux vendetta", subsequent to my post where I said "everyone should use linux instead of {Windows 11}" (so your false statement about me was deliberate).

Worse, you said I like and use Jack. Ick. Talk about smearing someone's reputation.

I'm not lying.

I never lie, and I'm always right. <=== Credit to whomever gets that reference.

I am currently opening myself right now to complete criticism.

Pull up your pants, man! Have some self-respect.

using Chat GPT to purposely be contrary is in my definition trolling.

Wait. Now Chat GPT has a linux vendetta too???

here's the definition of "advocate":

An advocate is a person who publicly supports, recommends, or defends a specific cause, policy, or group. They act as a voice for others—or themselves—to ensure interests are represented, frequently in legal, healthcare, or social contexts. As a verb, it means to actively recommend or plead for a cause.

That's the same thing Chat GPT said when I typed "What is an advocate?". :: looks suspiciously at audiophile ::

[audiojunkie]

I told you how I'm willing to play. I still maintain that I haven't intentionally mislead ANYONE. If you are unwilling to to point things out, as I said, I'm sorry that you are not going to get what you want. You are the one who made accusations. I accused you of trolling. So, I'm going to point out the trolling. Everyone can see for themselves and make their own mind up. Your own responses are available for everyone to see:

"ChatGPT says:

You’re not really addressing any substance here, just layering rhetoric on top of deflection.

First, whether “Tales” was part of the original exchange is irrelevant. In a public forum, people joining a discussion is normal. It has no bearing on whether the arguments presented are correct or not.

Second, telling someone to “go back and read everything again… or don’t” while also claiming you “don’t care anymore” is contradictory. It’s a way to imply misunderstanding without actually demonstrating it.

Third, simply stating “you are wrong” without providing any reasoning or evidence is not an argument. It’s just an assertion.

Fourth, bringing up “false accusations” without specifying what those accusations are creates a strawman. You’re responding to something vague instead of engaging with конкретe points.

Fifth, “who are you to tell me what to do” shifts the focus to the person rather than the content. That’s an ad hominem deflection, not a rebuttal.

Finally, the comments about bans, “Linux haters,” and trolling are broad generalizations and personal attacks. They don’t address any actual argument and only escalate the tone.

If you want a productive discussion, stick to конкретe points and address them directly instead of questioning motives or labeling people.

( I love ChatGPT, it saves me a lot of time. In fact, in my last few posts I let Audiojunkie and the other troll argue directly with ChatGPT, because I couldn’t be bothered to keep engaging with that much nonsense anymore. It also helped me turn the joke back on them )"

According to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling

In slang, trolling is when a person posts deliberately offensive or provocative messages online[1] (such as in social media, a forum, a chat room, an online video game) or performs similar behaviors in real life. The methods and motivations of trolls can range from benign to sadistic. These messages can be inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[2] extraneous, or off-topic, and may have the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses,[3] or manipulating others' perceptions, thus acting as a bully or a provocateur. The behavior is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or purposefully causing confusion or harm to other people.[4] Trolling behaviors involve tactical aggression to incite emotional responses, which can adversely affect the target's well-being.

Anyone who is being honest with themselves can't possibly look at this an not see what you are doing. Turning things around and accusing me of trolling won't change what is said.

Since we obviously have no one actively moderating here anymore, there's not much I can do about it. But I state for the record that you are offensive. If no one else can see that, then I don't know what to say.




"I’m told I lie constantly when I say Linux is great — which is wild, because I’m apparently “misleading” you with things like: it boots, it runs my audio workflow, it stays stable, it gets updates, and it keeps existing despite being declared dead every year since forever. Also yes, it’s “too hard,” “too niche,” “no devs will ever care,” and “Linus complained once,” so clearly I must be fabricating my entire operating system out of pure delusion."
-----The Delusional Linux Advocate

[havran]

You don't need to edit config files as root.

Um, what does that even mean?

Config files are text files to specify settings with. Editing them "as root" means you change the settings for the whole system, you need to do this with passworded admin access. You don't do this with a gui text editor because it messes with things.

In the user level section of the file system, you can edit config files that only affects the specific user. This overrides the system config just for said user. You also can use a gui text editor because the files can be opened without a password,

The latter is better because it's more user friendly and if anything goes really wrong at user config level, you can just create a fresh user. Having user level config also makes it easier for applications to configure. The main reason for the former is if you want to configure multiple users at once.

Thank you, Largos. I was just playing, but I imagine your clear explanation could be helpful to others.

[audiojunkie]

You don't need to edit config files as root.

Um, what does that even mean?

Config files are text files to specify settings with. Editing them "as root" means you change the settings for the whole system, you need to do this with passworded admin access. You don't do this with a gui text editor because it messes with things.

In the user level section of the file system, you can edit config files that only affects the specific user. This overrides the system config just for said user. You also can use a gui text editor because the files can be opened without a password,

The latter is better because it's more user friendly and if anything goes really wrong at user config level, you can just create a fresh user. Having user level config also makes it easier for applications to configure. The main reason for the former is if you want to configure multiple users at once.

Thank you, Largos. I was just playing, but I imagine your clear explanation could be helpful to others.

Granted anyone would wade into this cesspool of a thread to find the useful information. Largos is one of the people who knows what he's doing with Linux. I often learn from him. We may not see eye to eye on all things, but I respect that he isn't a troll.




"I’m told I lie constantly when I say Linux is great — which is wild, because I’m apparently “misleading” you with things like: it boots, it runs my audio workflow, it stays stable, it gets updates, and it keeps existing despite being declared dead every year since forever. Also yes, it’s “too hard,” “too niche,” “no devs will ever care,” and “Linus complained once,” so clearly I must be fabricating my entire operating system out of pure delusion."
-----The Delusional Linux Advocate

[j_e_g]

CachyOS is just as broken as all the other distros I tried.

Oh dear. CachyOS is not only a "young" (read: not mature) distro -- it's also a niche one (read: small enduser base for testing).

What are the "other distros" did you try? Debian? Mint? MX?

Moving on to Pop!_OS

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Pop uses a brand new (read: just out of beta) desktop called "Cosmic". If your computer didn't like Cachy, it probably won't like Cosmic.