Native Instruments file for insolvency...

[stratology]

It is funny to see how Jobs is always considered a hero, well, that's the tumor of Western civilization and only a few see how he caused damage to the world (society, business, culture, music) that can not be repaired any more.

Just in regard to music:

Steve Jobs effectively ended music piracy, by making it easier to purchase a song in the iTunes Store for $1 than pirating it from Napster.

Logic, MainStage, Motion and Final Cut Pro are products for creatives that cost an order of magnitude less than predecessors and competitors. Logic includes a sampler, lots of soft synths, plugins, loops and samples. Something like Sculpture, the physical modeling synth in Logic, could be sold for the same price as Logic, if it came from a third party.

[Opaque]

Logic, MainStage, Motion and Final Cut Pro are products for creatives that cost an order of magnitude less than predecessors and competitors. Logic includes a sampler, lots of soft synths, plugins, loops and samples. Something like Sculpture, the physical modeling synth in Logic, could be sold for the same price as Logic, if it came from a third party.

Businesses, especially the size of Apple, do those things as business decisions, not from the goodness of their heart. They are aware that if creatives start using and relying on their products for everyday work, it becomes much less likely they ever switch platforms due to exclusivity (e.g. if you're using Cubase or Ableton, you can also get a Win laptop) and they are incentivized to get them because these programs are realistically sold below the price of their equivalents, so that also factors in when choosing between Logic + macbook combo vs something comparable with a Win OS laptop (again making more people enter their ecosystem).

Don't get me wrong, these are all good products, but they are consciously underpriced for this reason, not because they care about creatives.

[stratology]

Don't get me wrong, these are all good products, but they are consciously underpriced for this reason, not because they care about creatives.

I think it's actually both: Apple always cared about creatives as a key customer base, and they make the professional creative tools available at low cost to bring people into the ecosystem.


I remember that before Apple acquired Emagic and released Logic, they had Pat Metheny advertising MOTU Digital Performer on the Apple website, promoting Apple hardware for creatives.

[martinjuenke]

Rumours that Yamaha is bidding for Native Instruments...

[loachm]

Rumours that Yamaha is bidding for Native Instruments...

...April, 1st isn't until next week...

(...but how I wished that rumor to be true... )

[Sascha Franck]

There is enough business out there related to Kontakt that from a business perspective it would be stupid not to buy it in some fashion.

But that business is spread over a whole plethora of different vendors. Do you really think these competing companies will team up and buy the Kontakt IP?

[234north]

There is enough business out there related to Kontakt that from a business perspective it would be stupid not to buy it in some fashion.

But that business is spread over a whole plethora of different vendors. Do you really think these competing companies will team up and buy the Kontakt IP?

Dude you're trying too hard. That plethora of vendors is why someone buying Kontakt in some fashion (whether that's buying NI outright or whatever) will happen. It's a core piece of many businesses, too important to let rot on the vine.

[parma]

I know SLATE+ASH is working on an in-house solution to dump Kontakt. I would imagine at least a few others are doing the same.

[234north]

Without Steve Jobs that $150 million wouldn't have happened in the first place. Even if it had without Steve Jobs the changes required wouldn't have been made so yes ultimately what saved Apple was Steve Jobs.

More like their "salvation" was transferring their manufacturing to Asian sweatshops.
#childsizednets.

Not sure they can ever wash that stain off in my mind...

That would be every computer manufacturer, most of which started doing that before Apple. And to be frank at the start Apple was putting together Apple IIs in sweatshops in the US.

I don't know why anyone ever tries to think of businesses as anything other than money-making machines. Public companies are beholden to the stock holders, end of story. They do things that make the stock holders more money. Cheaper manufacturing costs means not only keeping the company solvent but makes more money for the stock holders.

[BBFG#]

More like their "salvation" was transferring their manufacturing to Asian sweatshops.

Every single computer and phone company manufactures their devices in Asia.

Foxconn, for example, manufactures for Amazon, Nintendo, Cisco, Sony, Google, Xiaomi, Microsoft, and Apple.


The only company that gets criticized for working conditions at Foxconn is Apple.
Not actually Foxconn, not any of their other customers, just Apple.


Apple is also the only company that has clear, strong supplier responsibility standards that suppliers need to agree to, they also publish annual reports on human rights, environmental impact, etc.

That would be every computer manufacturer, most of which started doing that before Apple. And to be frank at the start Apple was putting together Apple IIs in sweatshops in the US.

I don't know why anyone ever tries to think of businesses as anything other than money-making machines. Public companies are beholden to the stock holders, end of story. They do things that make the stock holders more money. Cheaper manufacturing costs means not only keeping the company solvent but makes more money for the stock holders.

You're justifying slave labor with "others do it too!"???

[stratology]

You're justifying slave labor with "others do it too!"???

Wow, that's some self righteous bullshit.

I didn't justify anything, I just pointed out that you are pointing fingers at Apple, while making excuses for Foxconn, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.


Do you own any products made in Asia? Do you own a computer? A synth? A guitar? A smartphone? Any clothing manufactured in Asia?

If you do, how do you justify that?

If you do, you are doing the exact same thing that Apple does: you are doing business with companies that exploit others, even if you're not the one who is actively exploiting people.


There is no slave labour at Apple.

If you look at job review sites like Glassdoor, where people who actually work at companies post reviews of work conditions, you will find that Apple is among the most valued employers.

There are horrible working conditions at some suppliers in Asia.
Of all the companies buying from these suppliers, Apple is the only one actively trying to affect change to improve working conditions.
But the reality is, these are other companies, and interfering with other companies' business is tricky, even if you are a customer giving them lots of business.


Feel free to make suggestions of how you would like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Thomann, Paul Reed Smith, Behringer, Presonus, Novation, Arturia, Mackie, Focusrite, SSL, Audient, KRK, etc. to deal with the working conditions at their Asian suppliers.


This has gone way off topic. To bring it back around: Native Instruments hardware is also manufactured in Asia.
Cue moral outrage.

[Lind0n]

When Jobs first saw an experimental computer with a Graphical User Interface, he immediately recognized the potential, licensed the tech and hired key engineers that were involved in the original design.

I know its pedantic but...It wasn't an experimental computer - it was a soon to be released commercial product from Xerox, he didn't license anything, he copied it, but as Picasso said "Genius is theft", I'm not aware of Apple hiring any of the ParcPlace engineers (where this all got invented), but they may have, Palo Alto is just down the road from Apples HQ. (Parc is an acronym - Palo Alto Research Centre - owned and run by Xerox)

[Lind0n]

I know SLATE+ASH is working on an in-house solution to dump Kontakt. I would imagine at least a few others are doing the same.

You are correct many others are....

[Teksonik]

There is no slave labour at Apple.

"Apple has faced repeated accusations and lawsuits linking its supply chain to forced labor, particularly concerning the Uyghur minority in China and mineral mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). Investigative reports have documented connections to companies involved in alleged forced labor programs.

Multiple investigative reports by organizations such as the Tech Transparency Project and the
Australian Strategic Policy Institute have linked several Apple suppliers to state-sponsored "labor transfer" programs involving Uyghur Muslims and other ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region of China. The U.S. government has labeled the treatment of the Uyghur people as genocide, and the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA) now presumes goods from the region are made with forced labor unless proven otherwise.

Apple and other tech companies have been named in lawsuits by advocacy groups, such as
International Rights Advocates, alleging the use of minerals (cobalt, tin, tantalum, and tungsten) sourced from mines in the DRC that rely on hazardous child and forced labor.

Apple employees in the USA have raised numerous complaints regarding workplace discrimination, sexual harassment, pay inequity, and retaliation, largely organized under the #AppleToo movement. Major issues include allegations of a hostile work environment, surveillance of employee communication, and suppression of unionization efforts, resulting in multiple National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) complaints and lawsuits, including class actions over gender pay gaps, reports Business and Human Rights Centre and Cohen Milstein".

Is Apple alone in their abuse of labor? No, of course not but that does not excuse them.

Do I own any Apple products? No. Do I own electronic goods that are probably linked to the abuses listed above? Probably. List the alternatives or your solutions to the problem.

Anyway you are right this off topic in a thread that is nothing more than speculation but sometimes the record needs to be set straight. I'll say no more on the subject.

[Sascha Franck]

Dude you're trying too hard. That plethora of vendors is why someone buying Kontakt in some fashion (whether that's buying NI outright or whatever) will happen. It's a core piece of many businesses, too important to let rot on the vine.

You completely ignore that we're talking substancial $$$ here. Name an example of a company who should buy the Kontakt IP for a sufficient amount of money. A company with enough trust for the sample library vendors to believe in their success that is.