Plugins/Companies using serial, a keyfile, or watermark copy protection

[noiseresearch]

You can add K-Devices. There is no serial or authorization. Purchasing them is enough to use them.
https://k-devices.com/

[audiojunkie]

You can add K-Devices. There is no serial or authorization. Purchasing them is enough to use them.
https://k-devices.com/

Nice! Adding!

[fundlebundle]

Renoise (the company) qualifies for the list too.

Both their DAW, Renoise, and their VST plugin, Redux, are offline activated.

[sprnva]

Reading the updated FAQ on TAL's site, maybe they can return to the good guy list?

The plug-in will ask for your license key when you open the user interface. Registration and use of the plug-ins are possible even if the TAL server is unavailable or you are offline.

From time to time the plug-ins connect to the server to verify the license and register the device, if necessary. If the server cannot be reached, nothing happens. This means you can continue using the plug-ins even in the future, whether or not the TAL server still exists.

The license can be registered on up to four different computers. You can remove registered computers at any time by logging into your account.

[audiojunkie]

Reading the updated FAQ on TAL's site, maybe they can return to the good guy list?

The plug-in will ask for your license key when you open the user interface. Registration and use of the plug-ins are possible even if the TAL server is unavailable or you are offline.

From time to time the plug-ins connect to the server to verify the license and register the device, if necessary. If the server cannot be reached, nothing happens. This means you can continue using the plug-ins even in the future, whether or not the TAL server still exists.

The license can be registered on up to four different computers. You can remove registered computers at any time by logging into your account.

Yeah, I just had a big conversation about it over in the Tal-J8X thread. I'm going to write Patrick and ask him some questions. I would like nothing more than to be buying his stuff again. It appears that he's found a way to make challenge / response acceptable. Instead of blocking everyone, it seems that he is only using the c/r server to blacklist stolen or faked licenses, without blocking legitimate users. If so, and it works, then we need to pressure all developers that are using challenge / response to do this. I'm hopeful!

Note: I still prefer the way that U-he, Plogue, and others do it, but if we MUST have challenge/response, this is a better way to go about it.

[PTV]

Reading the updated FAQ on TAL's site, maybe they can return to the good guy list?

The plug-in will ask for your license key when you open the user interface. Registration and use of the plug-ins are possible even if the TAL server is unavailable or you are offline.

From time to time the plug-ins connect to the server to verify the license and register the device, if necessary. If the server cannot be reached, nothing happens. This means you can continue using the plug-ins even in the future, whether or not the TAL server still exists.

The license can be registered on up to four different computers. You can remove registered computers at any time by logging into your account.

That's great news!

[audiojunkie]

The email has been sent to Patrick:

Hello Patrick,

I have always loved your products, but I stopped buying them when you changed your copy protection from serial number to challenge response. Today, I found out that you have updated your copy protection information in your FAQ. I would love to buy your products again, provided they don't hinder me as a customer.

Your new FAQ entry states:

How does our registration process work?

The plug-in will ask for your license key when you open the user interface. Registration and use of the plug-ins are possible even if the TAL server is unavailable or you are offline.

From time to time the plug-ins connect to the server to verify the license and register the device, if necessary. If the server cannot be reached, nothing happens. This means you can continue using the plug-ins even in the future, whether or not the TAL server still exists.

The license can be registered on up to four different computers. You can remove registered computers at any time by logging into your account.

Did your copy protection change again, or has it always been this way? What is the purpose of the server, if it isn't authenticating users? It appears to still manage the number of machines. How would it work if I had maxed the number of available machines and the TAL server didn't exist? Would it block me?

I maintain a list of developers that have copy protection that doesn't punish the honest:

viewtopic.php?t=612966

I am really hoping that you can give me a useful explanation on how your copy protection works and what it does and doesn't do, so that I can hopefully add you back onto the list. I have loved your plugins so much, but this one issue (copy protection) stopped me (and others) from buying. It would be great to buy your plugins again!

Please, if it's not too much trouble, could you tell me in detail what is blocked or not blocked if there is no server, and what we can expect?

Thank you, best wishes, and congrats on the release of TAL-JX8,

Sean Ercanbrack (A.K.A. Audiojunkie on KVRAudio)

[fundlebundle]

So TAL is challenge-response activation now, with limited hardware activations, but it seems to have an exemption for when it cannot reach the server.

Does that make it as good as the other plugins on the list?

[audiojunkie]

Something like that. Here’s what he told me when he wrote me back:

Hello Sean

I don't think the latest update of our copy protection does punish anyone. It always works. Offline and online (special offline activation is not required anymore). The license stays valid when there is no server or no internet connection. You will always be able to use the software, also when TAL does not exist anymore.

It only validates the license from time to time, when you have an internet connection and our server is running.

Patrick Kunz
TAL Software GmbH

The point is, I think Patrick made a way for a challenge response copy protection to not punish the honest. Even if TAL-Software doesn’t exist anymore, our license keys should still work, while at the same time, it is preventing pirates from being able to pirate the software.


To drive the point home (that I believe the software is OK, I just purchased TAL-J-8X — the JX8P emulator synth he just released.

[Dunbar]

Thanks or taking the time to check TAL's approach to protection. I had written them off; it's a relief my investment in their software wasn't wasted.

[audiojunkie]

Thanks or taking the time to check TAL's approach to protection. I had written them off; it's a relief my investment in their software wasn't wasted.

Agreed!

[audiojunkie]

I've been doing a lot of thinking since the re-evaluation of TAL-Software's improved approach to copy protection. I would like you all to try your best to poke holes in this new definition of what we seek for acceptable copy protection. As a reminder, what TAL appears to have implemented is a hybrid survivable licensing model that still fits our definition of acceptable copy protection, even though it includes an online component while the vendor exists.:

-----------------------

Say NO to vendor-dependent copy protection!

Vendor‑dependent copy protection = Any licensing system where continued usability of legally purchased software depends on the vendor (or their servers) being operational at some point--now or in the future.

This includes all of the following:

• Online activation required (even once)
• Server‑validated license issuance
• Account‑based activation portals
• Activation tied to third‑party vendors (PACE, Verifone, etc.)
• No documented offline or escrowed fallback mechanism
• Machine ID tracking that prevents licensed users from taking software from an archived backup and using it to install and activate the software in a new machine

This explicitly focuses on long‑term survivability and continued use of the product in the absence of the vendor, which is what is most important to us.

-------------------------------

My thinking has always been:

“Can I still use my software if the company is gone?”

Under this new standard:

• A plain serial number
• A license file
• A one‑time server‑issued, permanent authorization (at purchase time) that can be backed up and restored on new computers
• A DRMed system with guaranteed post‑company-shutdown survivability

All pass.

What fails are systems where:

• Re‑authorization requiring the vendor is unavoidable
• Vendor silence = dead software
• Long‑term ownership is contingent

What do you guys think? In a way, I think it actually covers what we insist on in copy protection on the first page better, while actually making it simpler. The honest aren't punished, but piracy is still blocked. Please look for any faults or problems in this thought process. Thanks!

[sprnva]

I think we can add GS DSP to the list.

I checked their two free offerings and while they need a serial, they can be activated offline. The activation window also allows you to deactivate the licence which is a nice touch.

[audiojunkie]

I think we can add GS DSP to the list.

I checked their two free offerings and while they need a serial, they can be activated offline. The activation window also allows you to deactivate the licence which is a nice touch.

It sort of meets some of the criteria, but sort of doesn't meet the other parts. Here's what I found from their FAQ:

How do I activate a plugin when I bought it?
Click the menu icon in the top left, then click “Activations”. Copy your key and hit activate. You need to be connected to the internet for this to work, but you can go offline once the plugin is activated.


How do I deactivate a plugin so I can activate it somewhere else?
Click the menu icon in the top left, then click “Activations”. Hit “Deactivate”, that’s it. You need to be connected to the internet for this to work, but you can go offline once the plugin is deactivated.


Can I use your plugins on multiple computers?
Yes, you get 2 activations per key.

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I can’t activate my plugins on my new computer - why?
It might be that you forgot to deactivate the plugins on your old device. In case you don’t have access to that anymore, please send us a message below so we can help you sort this out.

So, in this case, it seems to tie itself to a single device. As long as you have no problems with that single device, you are OK, for the length of time that you use that device. If you need to move to a different device, as long as the company is still running and supporting the activation of the app, you can remove the machine ID from their system and add a new one. This works in a sense, but does not allow a person to save the installer and license to a backup, and without the company being involved, restore it to a new computer, which is the ultimate goal of Vendor independent copy protection. Maybe we need to develop a tiered system of app and plug reporting? For example, this scenario, where the software activation on the device works without the company involvement after the initial activation (and when needing to change the device), could be a lower tier acceptable (like a tier "B"), where most things do what we want, but not all. It is a less invasive copy protection method that could be acceptable to some, even if it isn't meeting the full criteria of what we are wanting ultimately. Thoughts?

[sprnva]

Hmm. Unless they changed it and haven't updated the FAQ.

I didn't even look for a FAQ, I just installed the plugins and was able to activate both of them offline with the supplied keys. No internet access needed.