Patrick's new baby... TAL- J-8X

[audiojunkie]

OK, here's my version of an alternative TAL-J8X skin. Tried to go for something classic, and yet modern and screen friendly.

That looks really nice!

[Korg Supporter]

to me this sounds better than J-8 which I own

not sure if it's the modelled synth that I prefer or whether just the modelling on J-8-X is better ?

sounds much less hollow than the TALs J-8 (to me)

very tempted to buy

I find that TAL J-8 sounds brighter (especially with the calibration enhancements), and it has PWM and FM. J-8's IR3109 filter can also be made to saturate and self-oscillate, and I prefer that over the J8X filter. TAL-J8X, however, does have more of a soft and mellow tone.

[Babz]

Check out “JX-14”, my demo track for the TAL-J8X synth, just added to list of demo tracks on the TAL site. All sounds come from TAL-J8X, except drums. (I’ll be back later for more details on the story behind this track):

https://soundcloud.com/lady-app-titude/jx-14

[zvenx]

Yep, J-8X does a nice bass too as your track shows.
rsp

[hurricaneaudiolab]

A quick and rambling observation for those of us who've used PG-8X religiously and are now comparing it to J-8X - it appears as though custom created PG-8X presets don't transfer over exactly to J-8X. The envelopes don't map the same and it appears that the resonance on each are calibrated differently. It also seems like the bass boost on the J8X is a little beefier than PG-8X and my JX-8P. Anyway, as I was comparing both, I noticed how my PG-8X presets sounded "better" on the PG-8X, thus I concluded that PG-8X was the better emulation, which was particularly interesting because the PG-8X matches up with my hardware JX-8P pretty much 1-1. I have to tweak JX8 to get it sounding like both PG-8X and my JX-8P. But I guess my point is that I got JX8 to match them both, where the biggest difference was in the resonance response. I suppose it comes down to calibration, however I don't have to tweak the PG-8X to get it sounding like my JX8P, so conclude what you want. My JX version is 3.1, may/1985.

[zvenx]

I would be curious to hear a blind a/b/c of some patches on all three, whenever you have the time.
rsp

[himalaya]

A quick and rambling observation for those of us who've used PG-8X religiously and are now comparing it to J-8X - it appears as though custom created PG-8X presets don't transfer over exactly to J-8X. The envelopes don't map the same and it appears that the resonance on each are calibrated differently. It also seems like the bass boost on the J8X is a little beefier than PG-8X and my JX-8P. Anyway, as I was comparing both, I noticed how my PG-8X presets sounded "better" on the PG-8X, thus I concluded that PG-8X was the better emulation, which was particularly interesting because the PG-8X matches up with my hardware JX-8P pretty much 1-1. I have to tweak JX8 to get it sounding like both PG-8X and my JX-8P. But I guess my point is that I got JX8 to match them both, where the biggest difference was in the resonance response. I suppose it comes down to calibration, however I don't have to tweak the PG-8X to get it sounding like my JX8P, so conclude what you want. My JX version is 3.1, may/1985.

Keep in mind that there were several revisions of the JX8P with different components, which had effect on the sound:

[jamcat]

I have to tweak JX8 to get it sounding like both PG-8X and my JX-8P. But I guess my point is that I got JX8 to match them both, where the biggest difference was in the resonance response. I suppose it comes down to calibration

So do you have to tweak each preset, or are there master calibration settings in TAL-J-8X that you can tweak and save as default?

[Babz]

How well can TAL-J8X serve as a PG-8X replacement?

Like a lot of people, I have longed for a replacement for the excellent but long-abandoned PG-8X. Thus, I was super stoked to learn that TAL had taken up the JX-8P cause and immediately grabbed TAL-J8X.

But can TAL-J-8X truly be a replacement for PG-8X?

Here’s my story.. A few years ago, when I first discovered PG-8X, I created a track called “PG-13” using only PG-8X + drums. As soon as I got the TAL product last week, the first thing I did was attempt to recreate my track using TAL. I exported my 4-5 presets from PG-8X as syx and imported them into TAL. The results of the transfer process were very close, but did require some tweaking here and there to get patches sounding closer to the originals. One of the biggest differences is the Filter. I’m not quite sure what accounts for the difference (envelope speed, resonance, etc.)

Overall, I was extremely impressed and would say TAL did the job with something like 95% success!

You can hear the before and after by comparing my track “PG-13”, to the TAL-recreated version “JX-14”. Listen particularly to the filter sweeps at the end. I tried both regular and “Modern” filter options in TAL, but I do have to say that I prefer the filter in PG-8X, which I would describe as smoother and warmer (at least for this particular patch, in this particular song).

Here is some more of what I have learned so far from this process.

Several things change when you export a PG-8X patch to syx. Portamento settings are lost and reset to OFF. The Key Mode settings are changed (MONO is changed to POLY). There is also a difference in VCA output gain (even though the slider doesn’t change). Just the process of exporting to sysex causes these changes, before you even get to importing that sysex into TAL. There are other changes, that happen, but I haven’t had time to carefully study them all. But you can observe all this by exporting a patch to sysex and then importing it back into PG-8X. Your patch will not sound the same and will require tweaking to get back to the original, even before you import it into TAL.

Then when you import into TAL there are other things. One big difference is the difference in the Chorus sound. The stereo of the Chorus is wider in TAL. Another big difference is the Filter. Sweeping the VCF filter and resonance sounds different between the two. Then there are Key Mode differences. PG-8X has POLY, UNISON, and MONO. TAL has six modes: POLY I, UNISON I, SOLO I, POLY II, UNISON II, SOLO II.

All of this says NOTHING about which is closer to the original JX-8P hardware, and unfortunately, I don’t have that available for comparison. Based on Youtube videos of someone playing the original preset on the hardware, I would say the wider stereo chorus of TAL is closer to the hardware. I’m not sure about the filter.

So, that is some of what I’ve learned in the last week. I’m still testing and studying.

Here links to my tracks PG-13 and JX-14 (actually the same track done with two different products) if you want to compare.

https://soundcloud.com/lady-app-titude/pg-13

https://soundcloud.com/lady-app-titude/jx-14

[zvenx]

Alas the links didn't show up..
rsp
They do now.
Thanks

[hurricaneaudiolab]

Then there are Key Mode differences. PG-8X has POLY, UNISON, and MONO. TAL has six modes: POLY I, UNISON I, SOLO I, POLY II, UNISON II, SOLO II.

Just want to chime in and say that PG-8X actually has six modes too. Click each mode twice and you'll see the LEDs change - that's how you switch to the "II" versions.

The interesting thing on TALs is this:

"We decided to implement the UNISON modes in a more modern way than the
hardware. In the unison modes we only duplicate the DCO’s and not the whole voice.
And the synth also has a stereo WIDTH option, the hardware does not.
To emulate the original UNISON behaviour I recommend the chord mode together
with the VT settings."

I think I would prefer the original hardware unison behavior out of the box, with the option to choose MODERN (like on the filter).

[jamcat]

Then there are Key Mode differences. PG-8X has POLY, UNISON, and MONO. TAL has six modes: POLY I, UNISON I, SOLO I, POLY II, UNISON II, SOLO II.

All of this says NOTHING about which is closer to the original JX-8P hardware, and unfortunately, I don’t have that available for comparison.

https://synthfool.com/docs/Roland/Rolan ... Manual.pdf

Page #9:

4) Key Mode Select

The JX-8P contains 6 sound modules. Six different key assign modes are provided to decide how these 6 synthesizer modules will be assigned to the keys played.

Poly with the Indicator lighted
This mode turns the JX-8P to a 6 voice polyphonic synthesizer assigning one synthesizer module to each key pressed. This is suitable for the sound whose envelope curve is similar to pianos or guitars therefore chosen for usual performance.

POLY with the Indicator flashing
This mode is very similar to Poly mode above assigning only one synthesizer voice to each key pressed. The primary advantage of this mode is that only the fast note or notes played together receive natural release length. This mode is suitable for the performance with portamento effect.

UNISON with the Indicator lighted
In this mode, two sound modules are assigned to each key, therefore the created sound is richer than in Poly mode. That is, the JX-8P becomes 3 voice synthesizer.

UNISON with the Indicator flashing
This is similar to the Unison mode above, but the one module of the two modules is one octave lower than the other.

SOLO with the Indicator lighted
This mode turns the JX-8P to a single voice synthesizer that assigns one module to each key.

SOLO with the Indicator flashing
This mode turns the JX-8P to the monophonic synthesizer that assigns 6 modules to one key pressed.

[Sound Author]

For me, playing this instantly evokes the kind of cheap synth soundtracks on cheap crappy sci-fi/horror films of the 80s.

YASS! You get it! That's the vibe! Break out the VHS tape effects and enjoy! This synth is begging to be used on vaporwave and outrun stuff.

[Nug Wrangler]

Very nice skin.

#creepyoutofcontext

[Babz]

Just want to chime in and say that PG-8X actually has six modes too. Click each mode twice and you'll see the LEDs change - that's how you switch to the "II" versions.

The interesting thing on TALs is this:

"We decided to implement the UNISON modes in a more modern way than the
hardware. In the unison modes we only duplicate the DCO’s and not the whole voice.
And the synth also has a stereo WIDTH option, the hardware does not.
To emulate the original UNISON behaviour I recommend the chord mode together
with the VT settings."

Thanks. I'm learning things I didn't know about both PG-8X and TAL-J8X.