Patrick's new baby... TAL- J-8X
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- KVRAF
- 24405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
It is CPU related 100%. Unison only for oscillators is drastically cheaper than multiplying the whole voice structure.
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- KVRAF
- 7651 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
It’s not like I want to complain. I’d much rather have nothing to complain about. The problem isn’t that Patrick lacks the skills to make an accurate emulation. It’s that he apparently lacks the desire to. A desire which can only come from a deep respect for the instrument.
I mean, I can understand changing the way the UNISON mode works. Patrick just thinks he’s a better designer than the legendary designers at Roland who designed the JX-8P.
But why change the chorus to appease one guy who said the wonderful and perfect JX-8P chorus didn’t sound like his MKS-70? (which last time I checked isn’t a JX-8P.)
These are deliberate choices that were taken unilaterally, not the result of a limitation of skill.
Instead, he could just give users the option to turn off the JX-8P’s limiter, then it could behave like either synth.
I mean, I can understand changing the way the UNISON mode works. Patrick just thinks he’s a better designer than the legendary designers at Roland who designed the JX-8P.
But why change the chorus to appease one guy who said the wonderful and perfect JX-8P chorus didn’t sound like his MKS-70? (which last time I checked isn’t a JX-8P.)
These are deliberate choices that were taken unilaterally, not the result of a limitation of skill.
Instead, he could just give users the option to turn off the JX-8P’s limiter, then it could behave like either synth.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- 7651 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
I have a hard time believing that is the reason, though. After all, PG-8X does UNISON the right way, and it was created more than a decade ago and doesn’t even run on modern processors.EvilDragon wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2026 12:04 pm It is CPU related 100%. Unison only for oscillators is drastically cheaper than multiplying the whole voice structure.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- 24405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Another reason might be that you end up getting thicker sounds by having unison'd oscillators on each voice. But yeah, that's a good option to have but not the default that should have been.
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 22 Mar, 2026
Honestly I think y'all need to calm down a bit. He clearly is open to making updates as are being discussed, look at the changelog for J-8. I definitely remember some of those updates coming out of discussions here back in the day (arp behavior for one). So instead of the veiled character attacks ("one has to have deep respect...") maybe just talk to the guy. He's got to make choices to get the thing shipped. The beauty of software is that it is always changeable.
Last edited by 234north on Sat Apr 11, 2026 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 7651 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
I've been reading claims for years (mostly here) that TAL's Roland emulations are the absolute best, even better than Roland's own plugins, with every parameter and behavior painstakingly modeled, until they are indistinguishable from the hardware.
So why then of all the synths, did Patrick decide to veer so wildly from the hardware with just the JX-8P?
These are not some subjective calibration discrepancies. These are objectively deliberate deviations in architecture from the JX-8P. It's just weird to me that the JX-8P gets such loose treatment, when I assume the Jupiter 8 never would have.
I do hope you are correct and we see future updates that allow us to choose the authentic behavior.
So why then of all the synths, did Patrick decide to veer so wildly from the hardware with just the JX-8P?
These are not some subjective calibration discrepancies. These are objectively deliberate deviations in architecture from the JX-8P. It's just weird to me that the JX-8P gets such loose treatment, when I assume the Jupiter 8 never would have.
I do hope you are correct and we see future updates that allow us to choose the authentic behavior.
Last edited by jamcat on Fri Apr 10, 2026 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14436 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Planet Earth, Somewhere
As the person pointed out just above you, even the J-8 initially veered, and stayed veered for probably the first two years..
(Released December 2020, added the JP-8 voice modes September 2022, added the Arp to behave like the JP-8 in June 2023)
So yeah ask him for what you want.
rsp
(Released December 2020, added the JP-8 voice modes September 2022, added the Arp to behave like the JP-8 in June 2023)
So yeah ask him for what you want.
rsp
Last edited by zvenx on Fri Apr 10, 2026 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sound sculptist
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- KVRAF
- 7651 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
But it is my understanding here that Patrick originally modeled the JX-8P chorus accurately (which is the heart and soul of the JX-8P), only to make it LESS accurate as a "compromise" because someone said it didn't sound like their MKS-70, which is a different synth.
Do I have that incorrect?
The other difference is one that Patrick acknowledges was deliberately changed from the true JX-8P design. Again, this not something that he just merely overlooked, as was the case of the precise behavior of the Jupiter 8 arpeggiator. No, this is something that was a deliberate and conscious choice he made, which makes the sound of J-8X significantly divergent from the JX-8P on UNISON patches.
I don't think it is too outrageous to ask that he not go out of his way to make his JX-8P emulation sound different from a JX-8P.
Do I have that incorrect?
The other difference is one that Patrick acknowledges was deliberately changed from the true JX-8P design. Again, this not something that he just merely overlooked, as was the case of the precise behavior of the Jupiter 8 arpeggiator. No, this is something that was a deliberate and conscious choice he made, which makes the sound of J-8X significantly divergent from the JX-8P on UNISON patches.
I don't think it is too outrageous to ask that he not go out of his way to make his JX-8P emulation sound different from a JX-8P.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14436 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Planet Earth, Somewhere
The correction I would make wasn't that the other person alone suggested that the jx-10 choruses sounded different, I believe he also did. And to be honest I too if compare the pre 0.95 chorus vs the released chorus, I too prefer the current chorus, but it isn't my bespoke synth...so my opinion really doesn't matter at the end of the day on that..
you think you can tell the difference in synth sound with the unison patches?
Would you be willing to take a blind test if I organize one for you?
rsp
you think you can tell the difference in synth sound with the unison patches?
Would you be willing to take a blind test if I organize one for you?
rsp
sound sculptist
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- KVRAF
- 7651 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Sure, I'd be interested in a comparison.
However, whether or not *I* can tell which is which isn't really what matters. What matters is there *is* a difference when there doesn't have to be one.
As for the JX-10 chorus, yes, it sounds different than the JX-8P. But this is a JX-8P, not a JX-10.
However, whether or not *I* can tell which is which isn't really what matters. What matters is there *is* a difference when there doesn't have to be one.
As for the JX-10 chorus, yes, it sounds different than the JX-8P. But this is a JX-8P, not a JX-10.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14436 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Planet Earth, Somewhere
your words:
"which makes the sound of J-8X significantly divergent from the JX-8P on UNISON patches."
if it significant surely you can tell the difference..in any listening test. no?
Btw with the Arp, he didn't do that purposely, he didn't realise till a JP-8 owner pointed it out to him and provided examples.
rsp
"which makes the sound of J-8X significantly divergent from the JX-8P on UNISON patches."
if it significant surely you can tell the difference..in any listening test. no?
Btw with the Arp, he didn't do that purposely, he didn't realise till a JP-8 owner pointed it out to him and provided examples.
rsp
sound sculptist
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- KVRAF
- 7651 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
Right, that's what I'm saying about the difference here with the J-8X versus the J-8. With the JX-8P, the differences are not mere oversights, they are deliberate choices.
I could have the worst ears on KVR for all I know, so why should the future of an accurate JX-8P rest solely on what I can or can't hear? I think I could, since duplicating only the DCO vs the entire voice is surely not what you would consider an insignificant difference, is it?
I could have the worst ears on KVR for all I know, so why should the future of an accurate JX-8P rest solely on what I can or can't hear? I think I could, since duplicating only the DCO vs the entire voice is surely not what you would consider an insignificant difference, is it?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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hurricaneaudiolab hurricaneaudiolab https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=424432 - KVRist
- 440 posts since 15 Aug, 2018
No need to bring our pitchforks out just yet, I mean we have to give him a chance. As always, he is very open to making changes and improvements. We've had a very nice back and forth on a few topics - I've sent him videos noting some differences, talking' schematics and shit, and I also asked him if he modeled the exact JX-8P chorus or if it is something else. I also asked him his thoughts on his modern unison implementation. So I am very anxious to hear what he has to say. But he did already say he is always open to making changes and improvements, and that there's going to be a new version out shortly with some changes.