can technicality kill creativity?
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- KVRAF
- 4314 posts since 31 Oct, 2004
can it?
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- KVRian
- 1408 posts since 9 May, 2003 from Manchester, UK
http://chrisamusic.bandcamp.com/
"It's square to be hip"
"It's square to be hip"
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
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- KVRAF
- 7879 posts since 16 Apr, 2003 from -on the outside looking in
Sure it can. But it's also not an excuse to ignore it. Perhaps it is a question of which pole sets the pace for one's music: creativity pushes us to greater technical achievement? I know I have become more create the more proficient I've become, but I also get bogged down with mixing and fail to finish songs. My grand conclusion: to each his/her own.
..what goes around comes around..
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- KVRian
- 1408 posts since 9 May, 2003 from Manchester, UK
Yes.herodotus wrote:No.
GOD NO!!!!
NO!
I has this discussion with a friend of my dad's. He (the friend, not my dad) was a well respected conductor of the Halle orchestra. Basically, he knew everything there is to know about music theory. However, his personal opinion was that he would not have a clue how to write a pop song. He may have known how/why they work, but he could not do it himself.
Incidentally, this guy also gave me a great little nugget of info. Did you know that Orchestra's are not in tune? In fact, they deliberately detune? Basically, one person in the section would hit concert pitch, and everyone else would aim slightly out. This gave the whole thickness to the sound,(natural chorus) and of course, meant that you would get the orchestra sounding sweeter on certain nights. I loved that.
"What do you mean I'm outta tune? - If it's good enough for The bloody HALLE ORCHESTRA then it's good enough for me". etc.
http://chrisamusic.bandcamp.com/
"It's square to be hip"
"It's square to be hip"
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
technicality can be creativity...
technicality can hinder composition, tho...
just like drawing a really complex detailed line doesn't necessarily mean you're not being creative (putting all that effort into an exquisite line detail) but it does mean that it will take longer til you get it finished at both ends.
technicality can hinder composition, tho...
just like drawing a really complex detailed line doesn't necessarily mean you're not being creative (putting all that effort into an exquisite line detail) but it does mean that it will take longer til you get it finished at both ends.
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
"Basically, he knew everything there is to know about music theory. However, his personal opinion was that he would not have a clue how to write a pop song. He may have known how/why they work, but he could not do it himself."
This doesn't prove that the reason he couldn't write a pop tune was because he knew music theory. It just proves that he couldn't write a pop tune and he also knew music theory.
I know lots of things about music theory (although nothing like "everything") and I have written over 40 pop tunes.
I'm not saying that they are all good, but they are pop songs
This doesn't prove that the reason he couldn't write a pop tune was because he knew music theory. It just proves that he couldn't write a pop tune and he also knew music theory.
I know lots of things about music theory (although nothing like "everything") and I have written over 40 pop tunes.
I'm not saying that they are all good, but they are pop songs
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- KVRist
- 453 posts since 20 Aug, 2004 from Falls Church, VA
Exactly. Some of the most creative people in history have known a great deal about theory and technique. ALL of the great jazz improv players have amazing technical and theoretical chops. The great classical composers too.herodotus wrote:This doesn't prove that the reason he couldn't write a pop tune was because he knew music theory. It just proves that he couldn't write a pop tune and he also knew music theory.
That doesn't mean that you have to have great knowledge of theory or amazing technique in order to be creative... just that it's not a hindrance (and may very well be an asset) to lots of musically creative people.
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- KVRian
- 1408 posts since 9 May, 2003 from Manchester, UK
And I have written 100+ pop songs. Most of them are NOT good, but a few of them have floated around various pop charts, and ..... I know very little about music theory. (Not attempting any kind of one upmanship there btw, just showing other side of the coin)herodotus wrote:"Basically, he knew everything there is to know about music theory. However, his personal opinion was that he would not have a clue how to write a pop song. He may have known how/why they work, but he could not do it himself."
This doesn't prove that the reason he couldn't write a pop tune was because he knew music theory. It just proves that he couldn't write a pop tune and he also knew music theory.
I know lots of things about music theory (although nothing like "everything") and I have written over 40 pop tunes.
I'm not saying that they are all good, but they are pop songs
PS - You didn't know that Orchestra's don't play in tune though did ya
eh? 
You did 
Last edited by Manc Chris on Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://chrisamusic.bandcamp.com/
"It's square to be hip"
"It's square to be hip"
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Stupid American Pig Stupid American Pig https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4753 - KVRAF
- 7065 posts since 25 Nov, 2002 from not sure
If you focus too much on anyone aspect of music it can kill your creativity...
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
long, long ago, I thought of myself as a film student. i took classes at night school that placed an emphasis on getting complete control of the frame.
the better i got at learning how to get what i wanted on film, the fewer ideas i had to put on film. i was taken aback by this.
so i went more into photography and because of that i eventually got a job as a photo tech in an engineering dept, where i concentrated on all the problems of classifying and correcting the exposure problems of amateur snap shooters. after a few years of this i quit taking any personal photos.
i suppose the same thing could happen with music, but the digital world has actually got me taking a few snaps again. and mistakes and accidents are often the most interesting part of putting a tune together
the better i got at learning how to get what i wanted on film, the fewer ideas i had to put on film. i was taken aback by this.
so i went more into photography and because of that i eventually got a job as a photo tech in an engineering dept, where i concentrated on all the problems of classifying and correcting the exposure problems of amateur snap shooters. after a few years of this i quit taking any personal photos.
i suppose the same thing could happen with music, but the digital world has actually got me taking a few snaps again. and mistakes and accidents are often the most interesting part of putting a tune together
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- KVRAF
- 6490 posts since 14 Jun, 2004 from Rochester, NY
depends on the person. For me I am so picky I can tell if the music was technically or creatively written. There are of course classical music compositions which are both creative and technical... I personally prefer hearing music with more leaniency on creativity because it's kind of unique to the person than mathematical. I hate metal, and like radiohead.
RonC
RonC
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- KVRAF
- 2831 posts since 11 Jun, 2003
I learned to play the violin using the Suzuki method, which is a making music "by ear" method..
When I eventually started taking music theory classes, I would be bored out of my mind.. skip every other class.. etc.. I absolutely hated it..
To me this is definitely not what music is about.. I want to have fun.. and for me, the only method that works is the "by ear" method.. if it sounds good, it's good
For me:
Technical knowledge of the tools used to make electronic music is a yes yes.
But technical knowledge of how to write music itself is a no no .. I have to write the music itself by ear.. It's the only way that works for me.. it's the only way I know ( and want to know )..
When I eventually started taking music theory classes, I would be bored out of my mind.. skip every other class.. etc.. I absolutely hated it..
To me this is definitely not what music is about.. I want to have fun.. and for me, the only method that works is the "by ear" method.. if it sounds good, it's good
For me:
Technical knowledge of the tools used to make electronic music is a yes yes.
But technical knowledge of how to write music itself is a no no .. I have to write the music itself by ear.. It's the only way that works for me.. it's the only way I know ( and want to know )..
Play it by ear
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Okay, lets get specific here. "Technicality" is a vague term. In its broadest sense no one can do shit without it, because music must travel through a medium to become reality. It is obvious (to me, at least) that the more you know about the medium the better off you are.
BUT....
"Music Theory" as it is taught in most schools today is a rather dated subject designed to help you master the skills of a bygone era. If this is interesting to you, cool. But the notion that this knowledge is necessary to be a "real" musician is, I think, open to a great deal of doubt.
On the other hand, if you don't know how to count properly, (and many are those who do not) you are going to have a very limited rhythmic pallette.
And so, the point is to have technical mastery of those musical elements that are important to your work If you don't have the skills in these areas, then your music will suffer.
But which of these elements are important to your work is something that no teacher can tell you.
BUT....
"Music Theory" as it is taught in most schools today is a rather dated subject designed to help you master the skills of a bygone era. If this is interesting to you, cool. But the notion that this knowledge is necessary to be a "real" musician is, I think, open to a great deal of doubt.
On the other hand, if you don't know how to count properly, (and many are those who do not) you are going to have a very limited rhythmic pallette.
And so, the point is to have technical mastery of those musical elements that are important to your work If you don't have the skills in these areas, then your music will suffer.
But which of these elements are important to your work is something that no teacher can tell you.