The one thing you wish you could do better?

[zerocrossing]

In fact, when I try really hard to speed it up to a BBKing-style shake, something weird happens almost like a mild anxiety attack- almost as if my brain is telling me 'No, you can't have that back - you can walk, you can pick stuff up, you can play rhythm but you can't play lead. Deal with it'. So I mostly do...

Sorry to hear that! Would playing nylon string or fretless (or both) help?

Thanks
I have a fretless bass, and I've tried the 'violin-type' vibrato there, but I seem to be stuck at the same slow tempo.

I tried a nylon string for a while (I restrung and set up a new classical guitar for a friend's son) and although it was way easier for me to play, my vibrato was still slow and weak. I think it's the nature of the motion rather than finger strength - I have a Jazzmaster with slightly higher action and 11s rather than my usual 10s, and I don't struggle to play it.

I admit I've become fixated on it, and tapperMike's right about not expecting to master everything - the funny thing is I never used to be bothered about the technical aspect of my lead playing. I never studied scales or modes, I just improvised freely - I don't know if I was any good but other people were complimentary, and it felt good to me. I did study chords and voicings, that was important to me and that's stayed with me, thankfully. And I've always been more interested in harmony than melody, it's just the way my brain works.

At the end of the day it's a tiny aspect of my playing, but it affects my enjoyment out of all proportion, because it's the one thing I could never get back.

Here's the thing. Solos are really only important to other guitarists. Think about most of the true hits. Do they have elaborate solos? Usually not. Songwriting and vocals are really what's important. So, while I'm like you, in that I wish I could be a bit more Steve Vai, I also know that Steve's never had a top 10 song. Not that he's written, at least. I think my song writing is very good. That's something I never seem to have problems with. Maybe my wish to do something better should have been, "find a way to get people to listen to my music." That's one nut I've never really cracked.

[ThoughtExperiment]

...

Here's the thing. Solos are really only important to other guitarists. Think about most of the true hits. Do they have elaborate solos? Usually not. Songwriting and vocals are really what's important. So, while I'm like you, in that I wish I could be a bit more Steve Vai, I also know that Steve's never had a top 10 song. Not that he's written, at least. I think my song writing is very good. That's something I never seem to have problems with. Maybe my wish to do something better should have been, "find a way to get people to listen to my music." That's one nut I've never really cracked.

Wise words - thanks for that and you're absolutely right. In my more rational moments I can see I'm obsessing about one tiny aspect that probably only another guitarist would notice. The trouble is, my songwriting's pants too

[Uncle E]

Personally, I think a slow, controller vibrato, used judiciously, is a sign of a mature guitarist. But I do feel your pain because the absolute best is when you can vary slow with fast. I want my vibrato to sound like Nina Simone, wide and controlled on big notes and then quick and quivering on quieter notes.

[tapper mike]

I'm not really a vibrato player anymore. I was when I was in a Blues-Rock band. I don't think about it I only apply it if the song requires it and and I don't seek out many songs that rely heavily on it.

[zerocrossing]

...

Here's the thing. Solos are really only important to other guitarists. Think about most of the true hits. Do they have elaborate solos? Usually not. Songwriting and vocals are really what's important. So, while I'm like you, in that I wish I could be a bit more Steve Vai, I also know that Steve's never had a top 10 song. Not that he's written, at least. I think my song writing is very good. That's something I never seem to have problems with. Maybe my wish to do something better should have been, "find a way to get people to listen to my music." That's one nut I've never really cracked.

Wise words - thanks for that and you're absolutely right. In my more rational moments I can see I'm obsessing about one tiny aspect that probably only another guitarist would notice. The trouble is, my songwriting's pants too

Here’s my go-to story. Take it for what it’s worth.

For years I worked at becoming a successful pop music artist, kind of in the spirit of bands like Radiohead, Bowie, etc. I had varying degrees of success, but nothing really got me to a point where I could quit my day job.

Then we had a singer join the band and we instantly started to take off. Same music. Was she amazing? Not really, but she brought a lot of friends to our shows and it sort of snowballed. We went on like this for a year or so. I was really starting to think that we could expand our range and make it.

She was thinking something else, like doing her songs, which the rest of the band thought were crap. Grateful Dead music for children. That’s what I thought of them. We tried to do them, but she wasn’t happy with us, and we parted ways.

In my head, I thought, “we’ll just find an even better singer and continue.” We did find another singer, but there was literally no momentum. I assumed we had amassed a following. I was wrong.

We muddled along for a while until the drummer quit to join a country band. My point of all that is, it’s a crap shoot, and I can think of dozens of great bands and musicians who are superior to most of what we hear on the charts, who went nowhere. My advice is, do what makes you happy and disregard the world. I can’t even get my friends and family to listen to my music, though I force my family to at least listen once.

[tapper mike]

Here’s my go-to story. Take it for what it’s worth.

For years I worked at becoming a successful pop music artist, kind of in the spirit of bands like Radiohead, Bowie, etc. I had varying degrees of success, but nothing really got me to a point where I could quit my day job.

Then we had a singer join the band and we instantly started to take off. Same music. Was she amazing? Not really, but she brought a lot of friends to our shows and it sort of snowballed. We went on like this for a year or so. I was really starting to think that we could expand our range and make it.

She was thinking something else, like doing her songs, which the rest of the band thought were crap. Grateful Dead music for children. That’s what I thought of them. We tried to do them, but she wasn’t happy with us, and we parted ways.

In my head, I thought, “we’ll just find an even better singer and continue.” We did find another singer, but there was literally no momentum. I assumed we had amassed a following. I was wrong.

We muddled along for a while until the drummer quit to join a country band. My point of all that is, it’s a crap shoot, and I can think of dozens of great bands and musicians who are superior to most of what we hear on the charts, who went nowhere. My advice is, do what makes you happy and disregard the world. I can’t even get my friends and family to listen to my music, though I force my family to at least listen once.

Been there done that.

[ThoughtExperiment]

Personally, I think a slow, controller vibrato, used judiciously, is a sign of a mature guitarist. But I do feel your pain because the absolute best is when you can vary slow with fast. I want my vibrato to sound like Nina Simone, wide and controlled on big notes and then quick and quivering on quieter notes.

That's such a perfect example

[ThoughtExperiment]

...My advice is, do what makes you happy and disregard the world...

Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I'm way too old to be anything other than totally reconciled with the way it is. I make music to please myself, when it works it's very satisfying and if it doesn't I try to learn from it. I no longer care how many plays I get on Bandcamp, I only keep the page to motivate myself to finish stuff, and make new stuff - albeit verrrrrry slowly

But, if I could, this is the one thing I still wish I could do better...

I have to say, this thread illustrates perfectly what KVR can do when it's at its best

[lfm]

The one thing I never got back is my vibrato - all I can manage is a slowish shallowish wobble, despite physio, weights, etc. I've had years to think about this and I think it's a brain-to-muscle thing.

You can try see to that potassium intake is enough, I had remarkable improvements to remedy some age related things like tremor and some disconnect with nervous system, adding that to general vitamin intakes.

"Potassium is an essential mineral that helps regulate fluid balance, muscle contractions, and nerve signals in the body."

About vibrato thing, I like the pure vertical movement rather than wrist. So arm is more engaged. I saw a guitarist, Jukka Tolonen, long ago and tried follow his example.
- this partly that I got some joint injury on index finger doing vibrato "normal" way
- other muscles may still have brain connection enough, is the thinking in your case

I also do upwards vibrato and bends only, which give string 1-5 no slide off fretboard thing.
- only low E string is downwards

I felt it took very short time making this vertical upwards the go to, never looked back.

[ThoughtExperiment]

The one thing I never got back is my vibrato - all I can manage is a slowish shallowish wobble, despite physio, weights, etc. I've had years to think about this and I think it's a brain-to-muscle thing.

You can try see to that potassium intake is enough, I had remarkable improvements to remedy some age related things like tremor and some disconnect with nervous system, adding that to general vitamin intakes.

"Potassium is an essential mineral that helps regulate fluid balance, muscle contractions, and nerve signals in the body."

About vibrato thing, I like the pure vertical movement rather than wrist. So arm is more engaged. I saw a guitarist, Jukka Tolonen, long ago and tried follow his example.
- this partly that I got some joint injury on index finger doing vibrato "normal" way
- other muscles may still have brain connection enough, is the thinking in your case

I also do upwards vibrato and bends only, which give string 1-5 no slide off fretboard thing.
- only low E string is downwards

I felt it took very short time making this vertical upwards the go to, never looked back.

That's some really practical advice, thanks

AFAIK, my potassium level is normal, since I just had my annual meds review which involves blood tests. However I'm sure a little supplement wouldn't hurt, as long as I don't go overboard.

I'll look up that guitarist, I haven't tried that technique but it could be a way in. I'll definitely give it a go.

Funnily enough, during the last couple of years I've adapted my once-sloppy bending technique to 1-4 bend up and 5-6 bend down. Great minds, eh?

Funny story - I had a brief fling with 'balanced tension' string sets, until I realised that they're balanced by making the lower-tension strings higher, thereby making the whole set actually harder to play. DOH!

Once again thanks for the helpful advice, I appreciate it.

[mystran]

Funnily enough, during the last couple of years I've adapted my once-sloppy bending technique to 1-4 bend up and 5-6 bend down. Great minds, eh?

This is actually interesting. Do you find bending up (ie. pushing) easier?

I always found it much easier to bend by simply pulling the strings... where as with the high-string push bends I just can't really seem to get where I'm entirely happy with them. Especially for wider bends where you need to move the next string out of the way ... pulling is just way easier than pushing, for me.

[ThoughtExperiment]

Funnily enough, during the last couple of years I've adapted my once-sloppy bending technique to 1-4 bend up and 5-6 bend down. Great minds, eh?

This is actually interesting. Do you find bending up (ie. pushing) easier?

I always found it much easier to bend by simply pulling the strings... where as with the high-string push bends I just can't really seem to get where I'm entirely happy with them. Especially for wider bends where you need to move the next string out of the way ... pulling is just way easier than pushing, for me.

I hadn't really thought about until recently, I just always naturally pushed rather than pulled. It was more a case of running out of fingerboard on the E and A strings that made me decide to adopt a system
Logically I suppose it's easier to mute the unplayed strings if you're pulling, but I stuck with (mostly) what I'd been doing naturally for 20 years or so.

[mystran]

Logically I suppose it's easier to mute the unplayed strings if you're pulling, but I stuck with (mostly) what I'd been doing naturally for 20 years or so.

Probably the worst is those licks that go like 14th fret G string -> bend up a whole tone, double on 12th fret B (and typically you'd then play 12th fret on E as well) ... 'cos the higher strings take the index (bonus points if you're playing with a floating trem, in which case you might have to microbend with the index too to keep the notes from going too flat), so I've got ring to push the whole-tone bend, middle to try to mute ... and pinky chilling out 'cos my pinky ain't bending anything.

[lfm]

I'll look up that guitarist, I haven't tried that technique but it could be a way in. I'll definitely give it a go.

You're welcome

No rocket science, really, just don't anchor palm at index finger at bottom of neck, so hand can move up and down freely.
- muscles in arm soon do those fine motoric movements needed

At 32 min and 38 min is some close up of Jukka doing it

- you see full hand going up and down


Just for enjoyment, nice groove

- he does some folk music fusion style, kind of
- also like how he use wah, not so much to extreme positions, just almost subtle
- arpeggiates melodies fluently and swapping to strum and the lot

Bonus track

[ThoughtExperiment]

Logically I suppose it's easier to mute the unplayed strings if you're pulling, but I stuck with (mostly) what I'd been doing naturally for 20 years or so.

Probably the worst is those licks that go like 14th fret G string -> bend up a whole tone, double on 12th fret B (and typically you'd then play 12th fret on E as well) ... 'cos the higher strings take the index (bonus points if you're playing with a floating trem, in which case you might have to microbend with the index too to keep the notes from going too flat), so I've got ring to push the whole-tone bend, middle to try to mute ... and pinky chilling out 'cos my pinky ain't bending anything.

Ouch! Just for laughs, I just tried that lick your way - not something the world is ready to hear...I knew there must have been another reason why I chose, all those years ago, to push instead of pull - it's almost as if I'd planned it that way