AI disqualifies anyone as a musician! It's like playback.

[Tiles]

I disagree. You’re drawing hard lines in a space that has always been fluid.

By your logic, anything involving variation or interpretation wouldn’t count as “written” or “performed” music, which clearly isn’t how music has ever worked, including playing drums or guitars.

Prompts aren’t full scores, and generative models don’t produce identical results every time. That doesn’t erase authorship, it just means the process is more iterative.

Same with production: using tools has never disqualified someone from being a musician or engineer.

[starflakeprj]

Then why not just listen to streaming music tracks from other musicians? It's definitely cheaper and you will probably find more high quality music. That's what I don't understand. I can't figure out why asking for a track is better than just saying, "Pandora, make me a music station based on these artists."

How do you suggest to find ideas and inspiration for Nordic folk music mixed with psytrance, or opera mixed with dubstep? Maybe orchestral music mixed with synthwave? Can you suggest a couple of artists I can get inspiration from? This is what I mainly use Suno for.

Again, I can't really figure out why someone would buy your totally AI generated track when they can just do their own. Why wouldn't Spotify just generate the music and shove it in your stream and save you the bother of using Suno? They already know what music you like. I recently started using TikTok for this. Do a search for some music you like, and watch the algorithm start feeding. you new artists. It's quite good at it and I have found a lot of cool new music.

And again, I have never mentioned anything about creating a full AI generated track and monetize from it. You are derailing, or being delusional, maybe both.

I'd rather keep making music the way I have since the 80s.

And nobody is forcing you to use AI, right? Keep doing what you're doing.

I guess my main question is still this: if everyone now has access to a frictionless way of making good, but uninspired music, where is the shared experience? Where is the sense of satisfaction? Will it become something like cooking with a pre-packaged meal kit, where everything is measured out and all you have to do is combine stuff and heat it up? Will generations grow up without being able to say, "oh, my mother's lasagna was the best!" Sad.

If this is something people want to do. Just let them, it shouldn't concern you as we are talking about "uninspired music" with no shared experience or a sense of satisfaction. You do you, let other people do them. No matter how "sad" it is.

[Tiles]

If this is something people want to do. Just let them, it shouldn't concern you as we are talking about "uninspired music" with no shared experience or a sense of satisfaction. You do you, let other people do them. No matter how "sad" it is.

This!

[ksandvik]

I'm fine with people using Suno, they will not make master pieces like Dark Side of the Moon or OK, Computer, more like me-too muzak, but hey it's a hobby for common people.

[Hipster Bales]

Just as long as they credit the AI as such.

[pekbro]

I do like to use a couple pattern generators for basslines and stuff, some use network based AI I believe. I do consider myself much better at it than the AI, but it's quick and easy when you're focused on something else.

No interest in Suno or whatever, never even seen a screenshot of it, literally.

[Zeisner]

If this is something people want to do. Just let them, it shouldn't concern you as we are talking about "uninspired music" with no shared experience or a sense of satisfaction. You do you, let other people do them. No matter how "sad" it is.

Having a corrective is necessary. Everybody needs that, otherwise we would get stuck or worse. Nobody can learn everything on their own. We all need experts who give us tough love, who tell us how to do something right. Yes, most people won't listen because they're too stupid and egocentric and full of themselves. But a few people do. They have the potential to make better music, better productions. Which is needed, considering how bad music (productions) got in the last few decades. Generative AI is good at showing exactly that, it emphasises what went wrong. That's why it should never be used as a source of inspiration. At best it should be used as a warning.

[Zeisner]

Just as long as they credit the AI as such.

I'm torn on this. On one hand it seems logical to force people to mark AI-generated content to not fool consumers. On the other hand - it reduces the pressure to train your eyes and ears (and brain), effectively weakening you.

[Zeisner]

How do you suggest to find ideas and inspiration for Nordic folk music mixed with psytrance, or opera mixed with dubstep? Maybe orchestral music mixed with synthwave?

Make it yourself, then use it to inspire yourself.

[Hipster Bales]

Just as long as they credit the AI as such.

I'm torn on this. On one hand it seems logical to force people to mark AI-generated content to not fool consumers. On the other hand - it reduces the pressure to train your eyes and ears (and brain), effectively weakening you.

Oh yea definitely, which is why I encourage people to learn mixing and audio production.

[Zeisner]

For anyone who might find it interesting: Render something with Suno or similar, then route it through a plugin like ISOL8 followed by hefty compression (but only use a good compressor that is free of aliasing). This brings out the artifacts similar to the mixing-into-compression technique. I also recommend comparing AI renderings with well produced reference tracks by using tools like spectrum analyzers and goniometers.

[BONES]

That came from a human

Don't be ridiculous, it is nothing more than an act of random chance. There is exactly as much human intent involved as there is in throwing a dice. But if that's the threshold level of acceptable human involvement in a process, then you must accept that prompting an AI to create a song for you is also acceptable, because there is more human control, more human intent, in prompting an AI than in randomly painting notes into a piano roll. So by summarily rejecting TechHaus's example, you have actually switched sides. Well done, you.

It was only a matter of time before Bones emotionally barged
in and took over half the thread.

I only appear to have "taken over" because you are happy to cede the floor to me. You're either too gutless to take on reality, preferring to stay safe inside your safe, little bubble of unreality or you're just a troll. Either way, you are completely full of shit and I am happy to point out everywhere that you are wrong, I see it as a service to the community.

The topic of this thread is only relevant for musicians who define themselves as musicians

By which you mean "wankers who think that there is something about playing an instrument that somehow elevates them above the rest of us". I am here to remind you it is not and it does not. Somewhat ironically, there is no better example of this than your own music. Honestly, you talk about pouring your heart and soul into a song, but then you feel you need to put in a little explanation for each one on your webpage. Lame shit like "Derrin enters the field. He walks through grasses swaying in the wind, between enchanting blossoms, and among insects buzzing everywhere. The field is inhabited by unknown beings and a treasure trove of never-before-seen structures. Derrin encounters fantastic figures and astonishing symmetries." or "There are those moments when you feel as if the air is tense and time seems to stand still: The magic is in the room - and everything seems to be in slow motion. That's exactly what "magic in the room" is about.". Are you f**king joking? You've put so much emotion and thought into your song that you have to write an explanation of it so people know what you're on about? Honestly, it's kindergarten stuff. In the frame of all the shit you carry on with, I was expecting something that might at least have had some actual emotional depth to it but there is none at all. Listen to The Beatles' Penny Lane, then go back and listen to what you've created and see if you can spot the difference. If you can't, let me know and I'll help you with it.

composers and thus true creators of new music.

Well if that disqualifies me, then it sure as heel disqualifies you. There is nothing new or particularly creative about any of your music. It's all quite anodyne.

For everyone who simply plays music, whether live on stage
or otherwise – for whom it's not so important what kind of
music they play – this thread is irrelevant.

I reckon you would also qualify here. I see no indication that you care in the slightest what kind of music you play/create. The music is much of a muchness, more your own limitations, I expect, than anything intentional, and thematically it's all over the place. The only recurring theme I can pick is "aliens", FFS. You set out a particular standard/expectation when you started this thread and nothing I have heard on either of your pages comes anywhere close to meeting any of it. Magic in the room is a good example - the title, and your explanation of the content, suggests something uplifting but the song is a dirge, something more appropriate to losing love, not finding it. AI wouldn't make that kind of error. For another comparison, compare it to Some Enchanted Evening from South Pacific.

As a playback musician, I would also use AI to optimize individual tracks, recreate them, or even create entire songs. The content – ​​the songs themselves – is arbitrary anyway – practically a random collection of original material, covers, and artificially created material. It's more about the theatricality of the show itself.

It's called "performance" and it is something that you would do well to work on, to put some of that human emotion you say you value so much into your songs.

For genuine composers of new music – and everything connected with it (authorship according to copyright, usage rights, reach) – AI is, at least in the near future, a game-changer. Anyone who underestimates or even celebrates this is, in my view, extremely naive.

Why? There are no copyright issues - if I write the prompts, I own the copyright. Tunee will even issue me a copyright certificate (for a fee) so that I can show I did it first, should that become necessary. The case you started a thread on a while back was strictly concerning a situation where AI wrote music without ay human interaction at all. As soon a there is a human in the loop, copyright can and does apply. Of course, if someone else can prove that the Ai used something over which they hold copyright, then the human is probably going t be on the hook for that, just as Nirvana were on the hook for using the guitar riff from Killing Joke's Eighties as the bassline in Come As You Are, even though they probably didn't realise they had done it. It happens.

[BONES]

If it's your composition ("I wrote a song"), then you will get the same song each time generative AI renders an output. There will be no deviation regarding tempo, key, melodies, harmonies, rhythms and instrument choice. And you will get the same song out of every single generative AI no matter if it's Suno or Tunee or anything else. Because it has all been written down in the prompt.

Good to see you are still completely clueless about how it works. AI will NEVER give you the same output twice, it's not designed for precision, it's designed to be creative. What you're describing is what you get from a DAW or a sequencer, something we all use, all the time.

But if that's not the case and you get different tempos, keys, melodies, harmonies, rhythms, ultimately different songs - then you didn't write, you didn't create the song but the AI did.

Yes, but it wrote it at your direction, to your specification/intent. If you're not happy with it, you make it do it again and again, until you get something that fits your needs/desire. It's like when an employee creates something for a company, it is the company who owns the product, not the employee(s) who created it. So when you prompt an AI to create something, it's like being an art director - you are getting someone/something else to do the scut work but you are telling them what you want, you are giving them the creative ideas and creative instructions to realise YOUR creative goals. The AI has no creative goals of it's own, it is merely the instrument/tool you can use to express your won.

When an artist fills an air cannon with paint, aims it at a canvas and fires, is it the artist being creative or the air cannon?

And you only curated the output of this new fancy pseudorandom generator. Which is not creative by any means.

Of course it is, you are just not sufficiently creative to be able to wrap your tiny mind around it. Is Elton John any less creative because he has Bernie Taupin to write his lyrics? Is Brian May's creativity diminished because Freddie Mercury wrote most of Queen's songs? You want to define creativity in a way that makes you feel better about spending your life trying to get better at working a certain way but that's not how the world works.

The same principle applies to performance. If you're a keyboarder then you can play on keyboards from all kinds of brands. Roland, Arturia, M-Audio, whatever. You can also play on a real piano too! There can be slight deviations when it comes to precision but you can play the same melodies and harmonies. But if you can't, well... you're not a performer then.

The same would be true of vocalists. If you can't sing, you're not a performer. The thing is, though, that there all kinds of aspect to performance beyond the ability to play or sing. A great vocalist is not always a great frontman.

If you can't write nor perform music then you can't make music in any way and you're not a musician.

First off, I can do both those things, have been doing so for more than 40 years now, but I'm not a musician's arsehole. I wouldn't want to be one, either. It is a thing that has no value whatsoever for what I/we do. There was a time it did - when I first started I had to play two parts and sing at the same time. I actually had to practice and get good at playing but as technology advanced, that ceased to be necessary and my skills atrophied.

Secondly, someone who can whistle can make and perform music without being a musician, as can someone who can sing. You see, your narrow definitions simply don't hold water. They are nonsense and make a nonsense of your entire argument.

I'm fine with people using Suno, they will not make master pieces like Dark Side of the Moon or OK, Computer, more like me-too muzak, but hey it's a hobby for common people.

Those are masterpieces? Really? I'd call both albums self-indulgent twaddle. I'd also suggest that working with AI gives someone at least the same chance of turning out a masterpiece as you have of doing it all on your own.

That's what I find so hilarious about you guys. You think there is something special about you and the shit you do but there isn't. Most of it is garbage and none of you are going to have any level of success, however you choose to define it, with any of it. You're all absolutely f**king delusional and you see AI as a threat because it can do stuff better than you without any effort. It scares you because it shows you and the rest of the world that you are nothing.

[starflakeprj]

By which you mean "wankers who think that there is something about playing an instrument that somehow elevates them above the rest of us".

Love this!

But I still stand by my argument, what do musicians, meaning the ones who play instruments, have to do with AI-generated music? The AI is not on stage or in the studio performing the music. The AI is composing it. That is a significant difference, and it makes the whole discussion fundamentally flawed.

[BONES]

The AI may not be but the things it generates certainly can be, in much the same way that I can't have an entire orchestra on stage with me but I can definitely have the sound of an orchestra, courtesy of any number of sample libraries. There's a song on our 2024 album with AI generated vox and when we do that live, it's the AI vox everyone hears, I just play some bleeps and bloops on a MIDI controller.