AI disqualifies anyone as a musician! It's like playback.

[VOODOO U]

Using AI to compose a song or to create the lyrics disqualifies you
as a musician. Totally.

Being a musician is impotent and the endless crates of garbage an A&R rep has to endure to maybe find half a good hook is an example of that. How many here in KVR are qualified as musicians? A lot. And they produce vomit as far as output.

As a true musician, you struggle – with feeling, with great effort
and sweat – to create a composition, making many changes
sometimes through the night.

I'll dismiss the word "true" and say this is not the case at all with me and therefore not the case for thousands of others like me. I can come up with a song in minutes that could invoke strong emotion. You can't do it but don't think that that's the case for all "true" musicians. Talk about cocky.

If you leave all this to a machine,
then you relinquish your creativity; then it is no longer you who
composed this song. It is then an AI song.

It is not the DJ who composed the song, but how many have become household names riding the efforts of others who composed the music?

The same applies to the lyrics: You yourself wrestle with every
word and every sentence, turning its meaning over and over
countless times, rearranging the words until you're satisfied, until
you like your lyrics

You're probably a poet. That's a whole other ball game. Good luck with that.

If you let AI do all that, then it's no longer you
who expresses the feelings, who conveys the message. It's the AI.

A.I. doesn't express feelings.

You are no longer a musician, no longer an artist – but a mere
consumer!

Right. And you're not.

[zerocrossing]

Then why not just listen to streaming music tracks from other musicians? It's definitely cheaper and you will probably find more high quality music. That's what I don't understand. I can't figure out why asking for a track is better than just saying, "Pandora, make me a music station based on these artists."

How do you suggest to find ideas and inspiration for Nordic folk music mixed with psytrance, or opera mixed with dubstep? Maybe orchestral music mixed with synthwave? Can you suggest a couple of artists I can get inspiration from? This is what I mainly use Suno for.

I personally use my mind. No subscription needed.

Again, I can't really figure out why someone would buy your totally AI generated track when they can just do their own. Why wouldn't Spotify just generate the music and shove it in your stream and save you the bother of using Suno? They already know what music you like. I recently started using TikTok for this. Do a search for some music you like, and watch the algorithm start feeding. you new artists. It's quite good at it and I have found a lot of cool new music.

And again, I have never mentioned anything about creating a full AI generated track and monetize from it. You are derailing, or being delusional, maybe both.

You're the one who said you were crappy at composing music. If you're not using Suno to compose and produce music, what are you doing? I mean, honestly, don't answer, because I don't actually care, but you seem very touchy about the subject.

I'd rather keep making music the way I have since the 80s.

And nobody is forcing you to use AI, right? Keep doing what you're doing.

Thanks.

I guess my main question is still this: if everyone now has access to a frictionless way of making good, but uninspired music, where is the shared experience? Where is the sense of satisfaction? Will it become something like cooking with a pre-packaged meal kit, where everything is measured out and all you have to do is combine stuff and heat it up? Will generations grow up without being able to say, "oh, my mother's lasagna was the best!" Sad.

If this is something people want to do. Just let them, it shouldn't concern you as we are talking about "uninspired music" with no shared experience or a sense of satisfaction. You do you, let other people do them. No matter how "sad" it is.

Well, it's the topic, and it's something that is getting pushed at me constantly. Here, and everywhere. I talked to a friend of mine who also does game music, and he admitted he used Suno to do some club music for a game level. I'm sure he's capable of doing it himself. It's the type of thing that I used to do at my last gig. It's part of the enshitification of the internet and the world. In my last contract, we had a really good art department, but the lame art director (not an actual artist), decided to just use Midjourney for a game pitch. We didn't get the contract, which isn't surprising, because what we showed was generic slop. The game idea wasn't great either. Maybe the game designer used ChatGPT? The thing that had me scratching my head was that there were skilled artists sitting on their hands doing nothing but getting paid. So there weren't really a lot of art and music jobs around, and now there are even less. So, it's sad that the world gets a bit lamer and the people get a bit poorer.

[Tiles]

“I have no hope for the future of our country if AI take over tomorrow. Our AI solutions are intolerable, irresponsible, and terrible to behold.”

AIristotle (384 - 322 b.C)

[Starbright]

Ok here's my take:
I don't think using AI per se is bad.
However it comes with major disadvantages in your development and skill.
As a vocal teacher I would compare it to autotune: it's a great crotch until it's useless.
Basically I use autotune with students when they are beginners and I work on their emotional delivery of their craft. like training wheels.
But like traing wheels it needs to come off at times.

Recently I read about a study (https://time.com/article/2026/04/15/how ... ing-study/) that showed that using AI wrong aka using it as a brain replacement erodes your confidence.
With that in mind I think there's good, bad and mediocre AI:
Good AI gives you a starting point and the option to readjust your settings (Ozone, Auto EQs).

Mediocre AI just makes stuff easier or more convenient without the real need of it (Unison Audio, AI Synths, AI vybe code vsts).

And bad AI just replaces your own thought process (Suno, Udio....).

I mean the same as Autone doesn't help you to learn to intonate better as a singer, AI doesn't help you to play and arrange better.

Basically genrative ai limits your selfgrowth and potential.

For me, personally, that's not what I want.

[Zeisner]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c242pzr1zp2o

That's the final result of outsourcing thinking to AI. Not only do you lose intelligence, memory, the ability to focus etc (as numerous studies have shown), you lose your sanity and touch with reality too. So it's pretty much like alcohol and drugs. And just like with alcohol and drug abuse it's not possible to talk users out of it if they crossed a certain threshold. So maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea to at least regulate AI to some degree.

[Zeisner]

I don't think using AI per se is bad.

Me neither. I've seen examples of machine learning being used well, like NASA's advanced FEM. I also used it myself in psychoacoustic research. It's powerful - but only for very specific cases and with lots of preperation. It can be compared to quantum computing which is also useless if you just blindly throw it at everything.

[eassae]

This is actual footage of Bones' morning routine before booting up ChatGPT to have it tell him how great he is at everything he does. After two hours of this, he then, in all his glory and benevolence, visits KVR to tell us what he's learned that day.



I can't show the tape of his relationship with Tunee—too graphic for KVR. Needless to say Tunee is the dom and Bones is the sub.

[Hipster Bales]

This is actual footage of Bones' morning routine before booting up ChatGPT to have it tell him how great he is at everything he does. After two hours of this, he then, in all his glory and benevolence, visits KVR to tell us what he's learned that day.



I can't show the tape of his relationship with Tunee—too graphic for KVR. Needless to say Tunee is the dom and Bones is the sub.

XD

[VOODOO U]

Not only do you lose intelligence, memory, the ability to focus etc (as numerous studies have shown), you lose your sanity and touch with reality too.

TV beat A.I. to that.

So maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea to at least regulate AI to some degree.

No one is stopping you from turning off your computer

[Zeisner]

AI companies have a high pressure now to generate revenue (No more free or cheap subscriptions for anything as demanding as audio and video generation), there's a lot of pressure from content industries regarding copyright infringement (resulting in a quality decline because of reduced data sets as it can be heard in Suno) and the hardware required to run local models keeps getting more expensive every day. Things are going to sort themselves out in one way or another.

[BONES]

Tunee still has a free tier, or it did about 6 weeks ago when I last used it. I don't have to pay to use Gemini or Co-Pilot or Midjourney. If I did I wouldn't use them at all.

I don't think using AI per se is bad. However it comes with major disadvantages in your development and skill.

What skill? Certainly not your creative skills but if you're talking about your skills as a musician, so what? They have not been a necessary or even relevant part of songwriting, production or even performance for 40 years or more now.

using AI wrong aka using it as a brain replacement erodes your confidence.

Confidence in what?

And bad AI just replaces your own thought process (Suno, Udio....).

Not even close. In fact, Id' say it's the opposite - it sharpens your thought process because it forces you to think about exactly what it is you want to achieve, right at the start of the creativity journey. Then, as you go on, you have to think about the best way to get from where you are to where you want to be, through written prompts. It gives you focus often lacking when you are just noodling around on a guitar or keyboard, searching for something you can turn into a song.

I mean the same as Autone doesn't help you to learn to intonate better as a singer, AI doesn't help you to play and arrange better.

Actually, that's probably the best thing AI has done for me, personally, in that it provides a vocal standard that I need to try to match, whereas when I'm writing on my own, I always work within my comfort zone.

That's the final result of outsourcing thinking to AI.

The same is true of using a calculator instead of doing maths in your head. When you order at a cafe, do you know how much it's going to cost before the servers rings it up on the till? I do because I do the sums in my head while I am waiting in the queue. Where possible I have the exact money ready before I even order, which surprises the hell out of the vast majority of wait staff, who grew up with electronic calculators. It's just a product of when you were born.

Mobile phones would be another one - how many phone numbers do you know today? How many did you have to keep in memory 25 years ago? Are you more stupid now than you were then because you don't have to remember all those numbers? No, of course you're not.

you lose your sanity and touch with reality too.

Clearly you and several others have managed that just fine without the assistance of AI.

So it's pretty much like alcohol and drugs.

... or television or the internet or social media or smartphones or Fox News, then. Whatever it is you don't like, you can find studies that prove it's detrimental to your wellbeing. Conversely, you'll have no trouble finding just as many studies that come to the opposite conclusion. It's utterly meaningless.

[zerocrossing]

I can't even get people to listen to my stuff for free.

Because it's poorly mixed. Like very poorly. That track in the "Something depressing" post belongs in the lowest quartile on KVR when it comes to mixing.

Thanks for the catch. I thought, “it’s not amazing, but lowest?” So I went back and listened and realized that I accidentally used a rough mix when I authored the video and I never noticed, as I wasn’t really listening carefully. Fixed.



It already got two likes!

But it actually got a some compliments. Evidently, the rough mix wasn’t bad enough to mask the quality of the song, which is high. Better than anything I’ve heard from the mediocre music generators. It’s irrelevant, though, as it’s not like there’s word on the street that the mix was off so people would avoid it and not listen. It actually had a bit over 100 listens. Not too bad, considering I don’t do any paid promotion.

Anyway, I’m going to go ahead and mute you. I don’t need that kind of little d energy on this site. A decent human being would have offered constructive criticism on the song thread, instead of taking a cheap shot. I hope you get what you deserve in life.

[Zeisner]

And that's why I ignore the entire Music Café now.

[BONES]

But it actually got a some compliments. Evidently, the rough mix wasn’t bad enough to mask the quality of the song, which is high.

I dunno, I managed that with a minute demo of a patch from Atomika, it's not actually hard. But how can you tell if it's good or not? I can't get past that f**king awful vocal. It sounds like a ventriloquist's dummy trying to sing without anyone seeing the ventriloquist's lips move.

[Zeisner]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R0m4t1OoTr0

This covers really well what's wrong with using generative AI to imitate art and storytelling. It's actually much worse than playback, it's basically anti-art and anti-storytelling.