Nothing exciting from Superbooth?

[foosnark]

IMO, innovation is overrated.

A lot of people are definitely a little too focused on new things instead of good things.

It's human nature to be curious/excited about novelty. But also we're bombarded with marketing driving us to want MORE and NEW and FASTER.

Also I have seen that people (definitely not just on KvR) who say there's not enough innovation are being very selective about what counts as innovation:

- a lot of stuff just categorically doesn't interest/excite them. This is fine, but that doesn't mean the stuff isn't innovative.
- there's a lot of hidden innovation that comes off as incremental improvements on old stuff, or just goes unnoticed and unappreciated behind the scenes.
- some of the most innovative, creative stuff is just too weird for most people to appreciate.

This is true of music too, not just music gear.

Also as people have pointed out, maybe not being excited about new things is a sign of having what you need, or just being less susceptible to the new and shiny than you used to be... it's not a bad thing.

...

I don't know why there isn't a bigger trade show culture in music software. Not as strong a community among music software developers as hardware developers? The existence of demos making it not as useful to get in front of customers that way? Economics just not worth it? Or just coincidence?

Trade show culture also has its downsides. I'd rather try a demo on my own rig in my own home, than have five minutes with it on a noisy, crowded show floor in an unfamiliar context when I'm already overwhelmed. Of course that only works for software. Also I think it's better to have new releases spread out over the year, not clustered around a couple of big events where the developers have to rush to get a product (or prototype) out.

[Andreya_Autumn]

If the prospective Nonlinear Labs C25 isn't exciting I don't know what is. If they were to make a plugin version of that engine (I have no reason to believe they will)... yeah many ways to end that sentence haha.

Isn't it based on NI Kontour though?

It's made by the same team yes. Seems they used many of the same ideas, just took them further.

[Nug Wrangler]

If the prospective Nonlinear Labs C25 isn't exciting I don't know what is. If they were to make a plugin version of that engine (I have no reason to believe they will)... yeah many ways to end that sentence haha.

Isn't it based on NI Kontour though?

It's made by the same team yes. Seems they used many of the same ideas, just took them further.

Yes it seems so

[Old Norse]

If the prospective Nonlinear Labs C25 isn't exciting I don't know what is. If they were to make a plugin version of that engine (I have no reason to believe they will)... yeah many ways to end that sentence haha.

Isn't it based on NI Kontour though?

It's made by the same team yes. Seems they used many of the same ideas, just took them further.

Stephan Schmitt gives a recap of the C15/25 development history here:
https://www.nonlinear-labs.de/product/s ... ase22.html

[VariKusBrainZ]

I forget who but one of the analog brands was releasing a software version

Schmidt maybe?

https://www.gearnews.com/schmidt-vi-synth/

Thats the one

[KBSoundSmith]

IMO, innovation is overrated.

I don't know why there isn't a bigger trade show culture in music software. Not as strong a community among music software developers as hardware developers? The existence of demos making it not as useful to get in front of customers that way? Economics just not worth it? Or just coincidence?

Trade show culture also has its downsides. I'd rather try a demo on my own rig in my own home, than have five minutes with it on a noisy, crowded show floor in an unfamiliar context when I'm already overwhelmed. Of course that only works for software. Also I think it's better to have new releases spread out over the year, not clustered around a couple of big events where the developers have to rush to get a product (or prototype) out.

I imagine the economics aren't worth it, nor the overall business strategy. A lot of audio software projects are one-man operations done as a side-business with no budget and little realistic expectation of breaking even on the time investment, much less actually making a profit. Distribution isn't needed in the same way as hardware, and for sales and marketing, email newsletters, social media, and YouTube are more than sufficient -- what is the added value of a trade show? Sure, networking with other audio professionals -- but is that worth the expense if a first plugin hasn't even broken even yet? Plus, if they want to capitalize on the attention a trade show gets, just release the product and internet marketing around the same time, it will be "lumped" together with the trade show coverage. Honestly, outside of networking (if it makes sense for the business), I don't see much value in a trade show for software. I'm sure I could come up with some for special cases, but generally, not so much.

[IvyBirds]

I don't know why there isn't a bigger trade show culture in music software. Not as strong a community among music software developers as hardware developers? The existence of demos making it not as useful to get in front of customers that way? Economics just not worth it? Or just coincidence?

Trade shows as a whole are dying out. Not just ones dedicated to music production. They exist so buyers from retail shops can see what's new and decide to carry in their stores and generate some press coverage for manufacturing

Not really needed in the age of the internet when there really is no music press anymore just websites and various Youtubers and so called influencers and buying plugins is done online and not from a local shop where you buy a box with CD roms in it

[whassup]

Stephan Schmitt gives a recap of the C15/25 development history here:
https://www.nonlinear-labs.de/product/s ... ase22.html

Lotsa details in this article which shows how far Stephan and his guys are from a "simple FM plus stuff".

Just these two bullet points from his detailed list about "C15 compared to Kontour" list make very clear to me how advanced and in depth C15 is:

- Each of the Macro Controls can address around 185 parameters.
- Flexible mapping of ten modulation sources (Bender, Aftertouch, 4 Pedals, 4 Ribbons) to the six Macro Controls.

Even having his "plugin" in my DAW and I would fall very short of having this depth of expression at hand as I don't even remotely have such a controller with all those possibilities.

It is an instrument. The box with all those controllers. Like a guitar. If you can can play, then...

[foosnark]

A lot of audio software projects are one-man operations done as a side-business with no budget and little realistic expectation of breaking even on the time investment, much less actually making a profit.

To be fair, a lot of Eurorack brands are anywhere from one person to a handful of people, using a contract manufacturer (who might or might not also handle distribution). Even Mutable Instruments was just one person, plus an artist for the panels, packaging and manuals. Although of course that was not just full time, it probably meant not much sleep...

But it's true that trade shows probably aren't worth it for software plugins. I was thinking about how video games have trade shows, both public and not, but it's a much bigger industry that spans from one-person indie efforts all the way up to the likes of EA or Sony or Microsoft.

[KBSoundSmith]

A lot of audio software projects are one-man operations done as a side-business with no budget and little realistic expectation of breaking even on the time investment, much less actually making a profit.

To be fair, a lot of Eurorack brands are anywhere from one person to a handful of people, using a contract manufacturer (who might or might not also handle distribution). Even Mutable Instruments was just one person, plus an artist for the panels, packaging and manuals. Although of course that was not just full time, it probably meant not much sleep...

But it's true that trade shows probably aren't worth it for software plugins. I was thinking about how video games have trade shows, both public and not, but it's a much bigger industry that spans from one-person indie efforts all the way up to the likes of EA or Sony or Microsoft.

A fair point, but I do wonder how much the trade show is worth it for such small hardware makers as well, if the goal is to ship products, because the margins are going to be worse than software. But I think there is psychologically something different, from a networking perspective, of having a physical item in your hand that you can show to someone and say "I made this" and have them physically see and touch the item, having physical evidence of competence. It's frankly a better way to get a job than pretend your resume is going to get past the HR automation, and even if you don't want a job, it gives a chance to get bought out. Or to get distribution. Another thought that comes to mind -- how many of those makers are able to stay in the game? As I said, I do think there are arguments to be made in favor of attending a trade show, but I think especially for a lot of small makers it's a very shaky monetary gamble that is probably too often an over-commitment.

I am less familiar with video game trade shows -- how big is an indie maker usually to even consider attending? The margins and attrition rate (and the reasons for going or not going to a trade show) have to be as bad as making software or boutique hardware instruments.

[MattCable]

A lot of audio software projects are one-man operations done as a side-business with no budget and little realistic expectation of breaking even on the time investment, much less actually making a profit.

To be fair, a lot of Eurorack brands are anywhere from one person to a handful of people, using a contract manufacturer (who might or might not also handle distribution). Even Mutable Instruments was just one person, plus an artist for the panels, packaging and manuals. Although of course that was not just full time, it probably meant not much sleep...

But it's true that trade shows probably aren't worth it for software plugins. I was thinking about how video games have trade shows, both public and not, but it's a much bigger industry that spans from one-person indie efforts all the way up to the likes of EA or Sony or Microsoft.

A fair point, but I do wonder how much the trade show is worth it for such small hardware makers as well, if the goal is to ship products, because the margins are going to be worse than software. But I think there is psychologically something different, from a networking perspective, of having a physical item in your hand that you can show to someone and say "I made this" and have them physically see and touch the item, having physical evidence of competence. It's frankly a better way to get a job than pretend your resume is going to get past the HR automation, and even if you don't want a job, it gives a chance to get bought out. Or to get distribution. Another thought that comes to mind -- how many of those makers are able to stay in the game? As I said, I do think there are arguments to be made in favor of attending a trade show, but I think especially for a lot of small makers it's a very shaky monetary gamble that is probably too often an over-commitment.

I am less familiar with video game trade shows -- how big is an indie maker usually to even consider attending? The margins and attrition rate (and the reasons for going or not going to a trade show) have to be as bad as making software or boutique hardware instruments.

Good business points discussed. Last one to add would be the personal connection and love of the craft. It was touched on with the idea of “I made this, and look, you can hold it in your hand”. One of the best things about synthesizers is how deeply people care about them (or are obsessed with them).

Truth is, for most it probably is a full, out-of-pocket expense that has questionable return. But if you love what you’ve done, respect these other designers, and have the money, you might throw it to the wind and say “I’m going”.

It’s a shame we may be going backwards with accessibility, but synths did originate as a luxury of the elite, and for decades ($25k moog, arp or oberheims, anyone?). Movies, writers, musicians: pursuing those as careers is still generally a luxury of the well-off, even if we’d like to think otherwise.

I think most innovation is going to be in products with a price point regular people scoff at. I’ve seen a 25k figure analogue solutions 8 voice, and many euroracks aren’t going to be too far off either. The new UDO is f**king SICK, but also like $3,500. There’s innovation out there, I just can’t afford it. Maybe we didn’t see a lot of (immediately identifiable) innovation at superbooth, but look at the past 10 years and it’s mindblowing.

I think it’s obvious, to anyone living I presume, we are indeed entering a sustained downturn. But also our short-form video scrolling minds also quickly forget how much we already have. Time to go back to the days of scoring a (metaphorical) 303 because it was cheap and finding some way to make it work, or grabbing analogs when they were being thrown in the trash during the digital age.

That said (after all my preachy “even if things are slowing, the innovation is there and we are taking it for granted”), I have to say to OP, I also was hoping for some software. I’d loved to have seen Softube, Gforce, Arturia or anybody with a new rock-solid 100% hardware-worthy vst, but I think we have to accept, those days are going to be dwindling fast. I wonder how many vst ventures will really be able to keep up with what we’ve come to expect from them.

[Seluvis]

Development time and experience is a real thing, take uhe, synapse, tone2 ...between them they have over 60 years of combined knowledge, new start-ups have to contend with that. I am not saying there aren't outliers but breaking into plugin development from scratch is becoming increasingly more difficult. Most of the low hanging fruit has been picked.

[whyterabbyt]

Development time and experience is a real thing, take uhe, synapse, tone2 ...between them they have over 60 years of combined knowledge, new start-ups have to contend with that. I am not saying there aren't outliers but breaking into plugin development from scratch is becoming increasingly more difficult. Most of the low hanging fruit has been picked.

This 'opinion' is at odds with the fact that there are more new plugin developers turning up than ever before.

And that 'new startups' can involved experienced developers too, they're not intrinsically neophytes.

[Seluvis]

This 'opinion' is at odds with the fact that there are more new plugin developers turning up than ever before.

And that 'new startups' can involved experienced developers too, they're not intrinsically neophytes.

I wouldn't necessarily come to that conclusion, more developers doesn't say much about the quality. I get what you are saying, its true there are more products than ever that there is no doubt of especially if you take AI slop into account.

[whyterabbyt]

I wouldn't necessarily come to that conclusion, more developers doesn't say much about the quality.

Hmmm. I didnt make any conclusions of my own, of course, I only pointed out there were obvious logical flaws in yours.