Surge vs top free/paid synths

[Touch The Universe]

Is surge mit? it seems there is a bit of confusion when i try to get gtp to implement it into a synth. It insists it is gpl3 but google ai insist it is mit if you don't touch the source code just link to it, can anyone help?

I want the modern osc, the fm 2 and fm3 only, and maybe the verbs and delays.

[EvilDragon]

Surge is GPL3.

[Touch The Universe]

Surge is GPL3.

Does Surge XT have an explicit linking/embedding MIT exception that allows its GPLv3 oscillator source files to be linked into a non-GPL JUCE plugin if the Surge source files are kept unmodified?

THIS is the info google ai is giving, is it hallucinating?

Yes, you can use code with this license in your synthesizer project, but whether you must share your own synthesizer code depends entirely on how you distribute the project.
Because the code has an MIT/X11 exception, it allows you to link your synthesizer software to this code without the strict GPLv3 "copyleft virus" forcing your entire project to become open-source. However, you must still follow specific conditions depending on your project type.
Scenario Breakdown
If your synthesizer is...
Can you use it?
Do you have to open-source your own code?
Your primary legal obligations
A Commercial Hardware Synth or Closed-Source Software VST
Yes
No. Your proprietary code remains private due to the MIT exception.
You must include the original copyright notice, the GPLv3 text, and the exception text in your product documentation.
An Open-Source Project
Yes
Yes (By your own choice).
You must include all original license notices and credit the original authors.
A Personal Project (Never distributed/sold)
Yes
No. Copyright law only triggers when you share or sell your work to others.
None, as long as it stays on your private computer.

Critical Rules to Follow
Do Not Touch the Source Code: The MIT/X11 exception only protects you if you link to the library (statically or dynamically). If you open the library's files and directly modify its code, those modifications must be published under the GPLv3.
Keep the License Text: You must bundle a copy of the GPLv3 license and the specific MIT/X11 exception text with your synthesizer (e.g., in a LEGAL.txt file or an "About" menu).
To give you a definitive answer for your specific synth, what format is your synthesizer (e.g., a hardware Eurorack module, a digital VST plugin, or a mobile app) and do you plan to sell it or release it for free?

[EvilDragon]

There are no exceptions, it is GPL3. As contageous as it gets.

[whyterabbyt]

THIS is the info google ai is giving, is it hallucinating?

Completely.

[Touch The Universe]

Good thing I checked, thanks guys

[Andreya_Autumn]

Parts of the Surge codebase are in separate library repositories, and parts of those libraries (written after the original open-sourcing) are MIT-licenced. This is noted on those github repos (sst-basic-blocks, sst-filters etc), and the files in question have notes about this in header comments. Those are free to use. Some repos such as the tuning library are MIT entirely, since they were designed to be freely usable.

All the code from the time it was open sourced, and the combined Surge project itself, are indeed GPL3 though, as others correctly pointed out.

[Touch The Universe]

Cool, that is helpful, thanks. I was able to test the code I wanted and make a facsimile and it sounds pretty close so I am quite happy indeed. I even went far beyond the fm of that, even adding little things like the ability to change the mod shape, and to include the pos triangle shape that the virus has, good for fm. This is a neat synth indeed. The verb is particularily lovely and the delay - would anyone happen to know if those are MIT. I'll see if I can find that out in the meantime myself, for practice, haha.

eeerp not so easy to find out

[Andreya_Autumn]

Those are all GPL yeah. Reverb 2 is based on "that one famous Datorro paper" on reverb design, like many others. So if you wanted that one in particular you can probably find something.

[Touch The Universe]

Those are all GPL yeah. Reverb 2 is based on "that one famous Datorro paper" on reverb design, like many others. So if you wanted that one in particular you can probably find something.

Thanks, famous indeed, seems I have an iteration of that sound verb in my current setup, though it explodes so an untamed one at that. I particularily like verb 1. I noticed it has air fx in it as well, and i believe those are mit, will see what's good in it.

[zerocrossing]

I like Surge XT, and I actually bought it when it was a commercial synth, but I agree with the UI criticisms, so I rarely use it these days. It's clumsy to use and not actually better at anything than the big commercial synths that are available. If you're starting out and have no money, I'd highly recommend it, but if you can afford to spend some money, there are better instruments.

[Andreya_Autumn]

I still use it a ton and am sure I would even if I weren't involved with development. I initially didn't vibe with the UI either (and still find some things not great). But I don't find it clumsy anymore. Prefer the mod system to any other synth actually. Once I got used to arm/disarming modulation with a hotkey it's really fast.

The fact you can have practically as many random LFOs as you like is really nice too. I always run out of those in other synths, trying to get many parameters to move/develop over time. Some of the DSP is a bit outdated indeed I guess, but a lot of it is quite good! Sine Osc and Wavetable with HQ wt's, some of the filters and shapers etc, are great.

[EvilDragon]

Actually for a lot of things the workflow is extremely fast compared to many other synths, so "clumsy to use" is subjective I guess.

Very much agreed that certain things are positioned in weird places on the UI as it stands (Waveshaper next to filter keytrack? Monophonic scene highpass in between those two, when it's actually at the end of the voice before things hit the insert FX? Stuff like that.) We're fixing all of that and adding way more in Surge XT 2.0, once we get to it. It's gonna be awesome.

and not actually better at anything than the big commercial synths that are available

Since you used the word "anything", allow me to refute it with at least a few (possibly unexpected) points.

- First in class microtuning/MTS-ESP support with integrated tuning editor? Only Pianoteq has that, but Surge XT then goes to town with extra options and views that Pianoteq does NOT have.
- First in class accessibility support for vision impaired users - made possible through immensely helpful feedback from actual vision impaired users.
- Lua scripting in the LFO allows entirely wild usecases you will be hard-pressed to find in almost any other synth (unless it's some sort of modular - even in that area this is rare). Enables awesome patches like this one, for example.
- Python API and OSC support built right in allows all sorts of embedded applications. You won't find Python API on practically anything commercial out there. You will find OSC here and there (Reaktor, Falcon), but not implemented to the same level of rigour as we have.
- CLAP polyphonic modulation support, for those that care. Most big commercial synths still don't do this, barring u-he AFAIK.

[whassup]

Enables awesome patches like this one, for example.

LOL!
That must be the best synth guitar that I heard in a long time!

[Touch The Universe]

Actually for a lot of things the workflow is extremely fast compared to many other synths, so "clumsy to use" is subjective I guess.

Very much agreed that certain things are positioned in weird places on the UI as it stands (Waveshaper next to filter keytrack? Monophonic scene highpass in between those two, when it's actually at the end of the voice before things hit the insert FX? Stuff like that.) We're fixing all of that and adding way more in Surge XT 2.0, once we get to it. It's gonna be awesome.

and not actually better at anything than the big commercial synths that are available

Since you used the word "anything", allow me to refute it with at least a few (possibly unexpected) points.


- Lua scripting in the LFO allows entirely wild usecases you will be hard-pressed to find in almost any other synth (unless it's some sort of modular - even in that area this is rare). Enables awesome patches like this one, for example.
- Python API and OSC support built right in allows all sorts of embedded applications. You won't find Python API on practically anything commercial out there. You will find OSC here and there (Reaktor, Falcon), but not implemented to the same level of rigour as we have.

How does lua scripting allow that sort of guitar sound. I'm sorry but what is going on exactly. I totally don't get it. It's a cool sound though. I think reaper has lua scripting but how can random lfo's assist physical modeling?

What sort of embedded applications - what is osc suppport, significance of python api?