Surge vs top free/paid synths

[EvilDragon]

It's for articulation management, and all sorts of details in the sound, it's a modulator after all. The sound itself is based on wavetables and physical modeling otherwise.

Embedded applications - just means you can run Surge without a GUI and connect to it either via OSC (Open Sound Control) or Python API, and control it that way (think small hardware boxes like Zynthian, etc.)

[Touch The Universe]

It's for articulation management, and all sorts of details in the sound, it's a modulator after all. The sound itself is based on wavetables and physical modeling otherwise.

Embedded applications - just means you can run Surge without a GUI and connect to it either via OSC (Open Sound Control) or Python API, and control it that way (think small hardware boxes like Zynthian, etc.)

So essentially, with lua scripts i can do interesting things with any modulation destination, is it like in place of a matrix? what exactly do you mean by details of sounds, harmonics, filters, wavetable positioning. Is it esentially adding more intelligent randomization behavior to mimic a certain style or effect, in this case a guitar? Still kind of confused.

[IvyBirds]

It's for articulation management, and all sorts of details in the sound, it's a modulator after all. The sound itself is based on wavetables and physical modeling otherwise.

Embedded applications - just means you can run Surge without a GUI and connect to it either via OSC (Open Sound Control) or Python API, and control it that way (think small hardware boxes like Zynthian, etc.)

So essentially, with lua scripts i can do interesting things with any modulation destination, is it like in place of a matrix? what exactly do you mean by details of sounds, harmonics, filters, wavetable positioning. Is it esentially adding more intelligent randomization behavior to mimic a certain style or effect, in this case a guitar? Still kind of confused.

With scripting you can do whatever you want, IMHO however it's better to do so using a DAW or VST host that supports it and then controls the plugins parameters using Host Automation

That allows you to use the same script on any plugin you want as long as it supports host automation which most modern plugins do

I use Gig Performer for this which can run in its own stand alone environment, or exist as a plugin inside of any DAW you wish

[concealed identity]

I like Surge XT, and I actually bought it when it was a commercial synth, but I agree with the UI criticisms, so I rarely use it these days. It's clumsy to use and not actually better at anything than the big commercial synths that are available. If you're starting out and have no money, I'd highly recommend it, but if you can afford to spend some money, there are better instruments.

That's pretty much how I feel. It's a very powerful instrument, quite impressive for something free, but it requires a lot of patience due to the UI. I go back to it every once in a while to try it out, but I find that other synths are simply more enjoyable to use.

[digitalboytn]

I think that Surge is a great synth and over time, it has become one of my main workhorses...

I use Surge because it sounds great, but as bonus it has a very low CPU draw...

There are so many great features that can bring a sound alive and if you dig little deeper ,it's all there....

I really appreciate the efforts of the Surge Team and I'm grateful to them for continuing to develop this synth...

I agree that the stock factory GUI is a little ugly, but I'm sure that they have something better planned for V2...

It takes a while to go through all of those lines of code and "turn the beat around"...

In the meantime, I'm using the Auraxis skin by Sonic Alien and it's fine...no complaints here...

Thanks once again to the original creator and to the Surge Team for keeping this beauty alive

[zerocrossing]

- CLAP polyphonic modulation support, for those that care. Most big commercial synths still don't do this, barring u-he AFAIK.

This is the only actual thing from that list that directly affects me, and I agree it is useful.

[EvilDragon]

With scripting you can do whatever you want, IMHO however it's better to do so using a DAW or VST host that supports it and then controls the plugins parameters using Host Automation

That's fine, but monophonic, and it is not intrinsically tied/stored with the patch. Lua scripting in Surge is available in both per-voice and scene-level LFOs. You can do a lot more than with host automation this way.

[EvilDragon]

I agree that the stock factory GUI is a little ugly, but I'm sure that they have something better planned for V2...

It does come with a dark theme, too, and then there is this (for those unaware):

https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/skin-library/


I'm daily driving Voger's Royal Surge XT skin. It's just lovely!

[ampetrosillo]

The "problem" with Surge is that it is everything *and* the kitchen sink. Even just looking at the oscillators, you have a lot of quasi-replication, and the same applies to the filters. Because, like most open source projects, they leverage what is available and/or what they come up with, and they make it all available. And for retrocompatibility, I suppose, they keep stuff so that patches still sound the same decades later. But it is a bit of a "mess" UX-wise. Yes, yes, it's all there in the manual. But the differences between stuff are often very subtle, and you either force yourself to ignore stuff, knowing that you won't be missing out on much after all, or it's such a rabbit hole that swallows you and you end up hours just exploring the possibilities. But the sound quality is generally very good. Some stuff is deliberately bad, but if you don't know that it's deliberately bad you can end up thinking that the synth is a bit shite.

I don't think it's a good synth for arrangement, where you usually want just a few options and a workable patch within minutes. Or a good, curated patch library. It's best for sound design, or just mucking about, or if you very clearly know beforehand what you need, and I think that the lack of good meat-and-potatoes patches sort of hinders it. (Or maybe there are a lot of such patches but they're buried within the weird stuff).

[Andreya_Autumn]

Hehehe. A while ago, Baconpaul (one of the primary Surge devs if anyone doesn't know) was interviewed on a couple audio/dev podcasts. On one of them I remember he said something like "to call Surge "Maximalist" would be a nice way to put it". It's true, I don't think it's the best learner synth for that reason. The biggest issue is it's a bit overwhelming until you get used to it.

I would still recommend it for beginners, if the thing they want is preset machine and not a "synth patch design 101" machine. Tons of good patches in every style/category. For bread'n'butter sounds, maybe Luna, Vospi and Kinsey Dulcet are good places to start in the 3rd party library.


As for the stuff that's "deliberately bad". Hmmm... the Alias oscillator is the most obvious example of that. And well, it being called Alias should serve as a warning. The Treemonster effect fits the bill as well for sure, which you'll already know if you've ever tried it haha.

Otherwise I'm not sure which things are deliberately bad. Some of the filters (Tri-Pole, the Warp ones, K35 at high saturation) are deliberately unusual, but I'm not sure I'd say "bad". Same for some of the FX (Verb 1, some Airwindows, etc).
Are these the examples you had in mind Ampesotrillo?

Oh, and I know the OG Surge skin is not for everyone (I for one don't like it). There's a ton of great skins available now though. Royal is my favorite but lots of other good ones too. Doesn't fix the layout issues ED named of course. But nice for other reasons.

[vanerio]

For some reason Surge XT filters the waveforms. I can't really find any setting to avoid that. Does anybody know if this can be avoided?

[EvilDragon]

or it's such a rabbit hole that swallows you and you end up hours just exploring the possibilities.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

In fact, we got many comments that expressed exactly that sentiment, but in an extremely positive light!

and I think that the lack of good meat-and-potatoes patches sort of hinders it. (Or maybe there are a lot of such patches but they're buried within the weird stuff).

I mean there's a bunch of meat and potatoes patches, we ship Surge with ~3500 patches! Click the magnifier button in the patch name field and you can search by name, or search by category if you type CAT=<name of category>. There's something for everyone in there.

[D-Fusion]

I like the default dark theme and Surge XT is a great synth that is just as good as payed vst's.

Everything is logical and well layed out on the gui for being a synth with so many options.

[ampetrosillo]

or it's such a rabbit hole that swallows you and you end up hours just exploring the possibilities.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

In fact, we got many comments that expressed exactly that sentiment, but in an extremely positive light!

It's not a bad thing. It's just the sort of thing that isn't really all that useful for arrangement. Usually, it's the more streamlined kinds of synth that work better in this role. Synths like Surge instead are more like "let's play with the synth a bit, see where it takes us" and then maybe you come up with a patch that inspires you to come up with a certain lead/pad or even just a chord sequence that you build a song around.

and I think that the lack of good meat-and-potatoes patches sort of hinders it. (Or maybe there are a lot of such patches but they're buried within the weird stuff).

I mean there's a bunch of meat and potatoes patches, we ship Surge with ~3500 patches! Click the magnifier button in the patch name field and you can search by name, or search by category if you type CAT=<name of category>. There's something for everyone in there.

As I said, they're often buried among countless other patches that aren't that utilitarian. 3500 patches sounds like a good thing until you realise that you're not going to cycle through hundreds of patches until you find the one you like.

[EvilDragon]

It's just the sort of thing that isn't really all that useful for arrangement. Usually, it's the more streamlined kinds of synth that work better in this role. Synths like Surge instead are more like "let's play with the synth a bit, see where it takes us" and then maybe you come up with a patch that inspires you to come up with a certain lead/pad or even just a chord sequence that you build a song around.

Fair enough, although that's quite subjective, and I bet there are many people out there who feel the exact opposite.

This is why we have the favorites feature, you can have your own army of useful patches available right there.

As I said, they're often buried among countless other patches that aren't that utilitarian.

That's mostly the case with a lot of other synths, too, though, from my experience.