Producing Without VSTs

[Seafire Mk2]

The positive of this is that it could force you to commit and finish something.

I just record to audio…

Same with hardware synths…Get to audio as soon as possible after all that is the end goal.

Yup, that’s exactly how I work with hardware synths. I usually play it live and record the MIDI, tweak the timing, velocity, expression, etc. as needed, then add any additional MIDI automation, bounce it to audio and call it good. If, for whatever reason, I’m not able to print it to audio in a session, I just save the location of the synth’s preset in the track name (e.g., “P6-714), save the patch on the synth, and finish it in the next session. Once I’m done, I have the audio and MIDI saved on my computer, and I have the synth name and patch location documented in case I ever need to go back to it, which I almost never do.

The one caveat, though, is that most of my songs feature vocalists and it’s not too uncommon for them to want the key of the song changed to better fit their range when it comes time to record. In that case, I simply drop/raise the MIDI notes to the new key and re-bounce the hardware synth parts. Once the song is done, I move on and usually forget entirely which synth or patch I used.

Right, but the op asked which is more liberating. Surely not that.

Cool story about workflows but that is more restrictive.

EDIT: misread what I was responding to, but leaving it anyway.

the restriction is good

Here is what I said early in this thread:

"VSTs are the liberators. But restrictions (hardware) can be good. Many great creations are made in restrictive frameworks. But you can create your own restrictions in the box with VSTs, if you choose."

You are just here to push buttons? I don't get it.

It's a troll, ignore them

[casiobioassay]

The positive of this is that it could force you to commit and finish something.

I just record to audio…

Same with hardware synths…Get to audio as soon as possible after all that is the end goal.

Yup, that’s exactly how I work with hardware synths. I usually play it live and record the MIDI, tweak the timing, velocity, expression, etc. as needed, then add any additional MIDI automation, bounce it to audio and call it good. If, for whatever reason, I’m not able to print it to audio in a session, I just save the location of the synth’s preset in the track name (e.g., “P6-714), save the patch on the synth, and finish it in the next session. Once I’m done, I have the audio and MIDI saved on my computer, and I have the synth name and patch location documented in case I ever need to go back to it, which I almost never do.

The one caveat, though, is that most of my songs feature vocalists and it’s not too uncommon for them to want the key of the song changed to better fit their range when it comes time to record. In that case, I simply drop/raise the MIDI notes to the new key and re-bounce the hardware synth parts. Once the song is done, I move on and usually forget entirely which synth or patch I used.

You can just change the key of the audio directly nowadays.

I'm sure he didn't know this. Appreciate you so much.

And I sure your mother appreciates you too

[cryophonik]

EDIT: One caveat being if you are using a modular synth and the part is just not done yet and not ready to be recorded. That's a thing.

Yeah, that’s a whole other way of working that I never really got into. Seems like it’s for people who are a bizarre combination of patient, methodical, and mad scientist, so not for me (especially the patience part)

[casiobioassay]

EDIT: One caveat being if you are using a modular synth and the part is just not done yet and not ready to be recorded. That's a thing.

Yeah, that’s a whole other way of working that I never really got into. Seems like it’s for people who are a bizarre combination of patient, methodical, and mad scientist, so not for me (especially the patience part)

A lot of synth collectors including modular guys don't produce anything.

[cryophonik]

EDIT: One caveat being if you are using a modular synth and the part is just not done yet and not ready to be recorded. That's a thing.

Yeah, that’s a whole other way of working that I never really got into. Seems like it’s for people who are a bizarre combination of patient, methodical, and mad scientist, so not for me (especially the patience part)

A lot of synth collectors including modular guys don't produce anything.

Nothing wrong with that. For many musicians or synth enthusiasts, it’s about the journey and not the destination. Also, a lot of people who own 4 DAWs and 1,200 plugins don’t finish anything, either. If I had to choose between being someone who simply plays music/goes crazy with modular synth sound design and someone who collects software, I know which one I’d choose.

[casiobioassay]

EDIT: One caveat being if you are using a modular synth and the part is just not done yet and not ready to be recorded. That's a thing.

Yeah, that’s a whole other way of working that I never really got into. Seems like it’s for people who are a bizarre combination of patient, methodical, and mad scientist, so not for me (especially the patience part)

A lot of synth collectors including modular guys don't produce anything.

Nothing wrong with that. For many musicians or synth enthusiasts, it’s about the journey and not the destination. Also, a lot of people who own 4 DAWs and 1,200 plugins don’t finish anything, either.

Nothing wrong with it, but it's a different journey, and sometimes one without a destination at all. The rampant hedonistic consumerism is rife whether ITB or out. But this is a thread about producing not collecting.

[TechHaus]

Then there is Junkie XL who scores modern films with his modular.

EDIT: Moreover, many of my favorite starter sampler sounds are from modulars.

[zerocrossing]

I fully understand option paralysis but I agree, the options are liberating and rejecting them is silly.

Choose your limitations for creativity and work within that, that's the same hardware or software. VSTs are simply the democratizing factor that opens up options for more people. This is universally, unequivocally a good thing.

We have had music publishing open up with platforms like Spotify. Anyone can release anything now. From a music listener's perspective this has not made the experience better.

For better or worse, music publishing used to have a gate-keeper process that kept a lot, though not all, garbage out of the record stores and air waves. There was payola, but few were willing to pay for something that was really bad. I don't remember ever hearing voices that couldn't carry a tune or parts played without regard to rhythm or tempo, though that's a pretty common phenomenon if you visit KVR's Cafe section. It's surprising that I'm not aware of an influencer class that has arrived who spend the time hunting for talent and promoting it. I see a little of this on TikTok, but I don't think it's big. In a weird way, AI is this, as it generates its slop based on what it's trained on, which is generally published music that has gotten through some vetting process. Its problem though, is the music is generated without any emotional relationship with the training material and is bland and very derivative. A lot of human made music is bland and derivative, as well.

Technology has driven accessibility but the trade of has been flooding the market with lots of utter shite. Who wins under this model?

Corporations. It's corporations that have always won.

[zerocrossing]

EDIT: One caveat being if you are using a modular synth and the part is just not done yet and not ready to be recorded. That's a thing.

Yeah, that’s a whole other way of working that I never really got into. Seems like it’s for people who are a bizarre combination of patient, methodical, and mad scientist, so not for me (especially the patience part)

A lot of synth collectors including modular guys don't produce anything.

Not true. They produce economic activity and waste heat.

[DrGonzo]

6DD9E831-B0AD-4A0C-8887-C1065A5EE51D.jpeg

Is that the old Novation controller at the bottom? From that angle it looks like some futuristic mixer

Seriously beautiful creative space you made.

[cryophonik]

6DD9E831-B0AD-4A0C-8887-C1065A5EE51D.jpeg

Is that the old Novation controller at the bottom? From that angle it looks like some futuristic mixer

Seriously beautiful creative space you made.

Yup, that's my trusty old Novation ReMote SL mk1! I love that thing - excellent Fatar keybed and just super easy to set up custom templates for every synth. One of these days I'm going to find a 49-key version of it. Thanks DG!

[rod_zero]

I only buy plugins if I am not happy with the stock effects and instruments, which have gotten quite good.

[zerocrossing]

6DD9E831-B0AD-4A0C-8887-C1065A5EE51D.jpeg

Is that the old Novation controller at the bottom? From that angle it looks like some futuristic mixer

Seriously beautiful creative space you made.

Yup, that's my trusty old Novation ReMote SL mk1! I love that thing - excellent Fatar keybed and just super easy to set up custom templates for every synth. One of these days I'm going to find a 49-key version of it. Thanks DG!

Is the name of that jpeg your Native Instruments Komplete serial number?

[AsPeeXXXVIII]

Could you produce exclusively without VSTs?

You could, but you'd be blowing exorbitant amounts of money on hardware. At that point, it becomes a question of investment and whether you deem it worth it.

[casiobioassay]

I fully understand option paralysis but I agree, the options are liberating and rejecting them is silly.

Choose your limitations for creativity and work within that, that's the same hardware or software. VSTs are simply the democratizing factor that opens up options for more people. This is universally, unequivocally a good thing.

We have had music publishing open up with platforms like Spotify. Anyone can release anything now. From a music listener's perspective this has not made the experience better.

For better or worse, music publishing used to have a gate-keeper process that kept a lot, though not all, garbage out of the record stores and air waves. There was payola, but few were willing to pay for something that was really bad. I don't remember ever hearing voices that couldn't carry a tune or parts played without regard to rhythm or tempo, though that's a pretty common phenomenon if you visit KVR's Cafe section. It's surprising that I'm not aware of an influencer class that has arrived who spend the time hunting for talent and promoting it. I see a little of this on TikTok, but I don't think it's big. In a weird way, AI is this, as it generates its slop based on what it's trained on, which is generally published music that has gotten through some vetting process. Its problem though, is the music is generated without any emotional relationship with the training material and is bland and very derivative. A lot of human made music is bland and derivative, as well.

Technology has driven accessibility but the trade of has been flooding the market with lots of utter shite. Who wins under this model?

Corporations. It's corporations that have always won.

Bingo