Zebra 3.0 - out now

[ptnah]

i understand. good that the MSEGs will improve in that way then.
but its not solving the quest I and others were on regarding note-agnostic mod sources.
just wanted to point that out.
i am patient and have my workarounds via A/B/C/D. cheers

[Urs]

i understand. good that the MSEGs will improve in that way then.
but its not solving the quest I and others were on regarding note-agnostic mod sources.
just wanted to point that out.
i am patient and have my workarounds via A/B/C/D. cheers

So it's in the nature of per voice modulation sources to live by the notes that start the processing of the voices. Such a modulation can "pretend" to run globally (as our LFOs and Mappers already do, when set up as such), but one can not get any global and thus voice agnostic modulation to suddenly become voiced. Therefore, the premise to focus on voiced modulators is better than the focus on voice agnostic ones. One can emulate the other, but not vice-versa.

IIRC one of the big modern synths out there has MSEGs that only work globally. Imagine that. Sure, it does what people here ask for, but that is a really tough restriction...

That said, we do have ideas on adding an arpeggiator and sequencer(s) in the future. Those will very likely be global and also be available for as triggers for all those trigger targets we have implemented on voice level. Can't yet say when that will happen, depends on too many factors to know right now.

[Andreya_Autumn]

Yup that's an important point about the rate getting modulated.

And I do actually think it does solve it @ptnah. As long as you don't automate/modulate the MSEG rate (which you normally wouldn't in these cases anyway right?) then the results will be indistinguishable from if it were truly note-agnostic. Whenever you start up a note it will take the right phase position as if the MSEG had been running silently the whole time. And if you manually do what I described above (set all the MSEGs curves to the same length, and all their Loop points to the start/end) you'd get very predictable rimeline-synced behavior even while morphing between curves.

[ptnah]

Thank you both for the sincere explanations!

I am beginning to understand.

Just to be meticulous:
with the new mode, if I have a 2-bar loop containing six short eighth notes scattered at separate positions, and I set up a 2-bar long MSEG with a custom curve to act on a parameter, will each note trigger the MSEG not from the beginning, but precisely from the playback position of that triggering note within those 2 bars?

If so, that would indeed be fantastic and practically indistinguishable from the tempo-synced, free-running, cyclical, customizable modulation source all the fuss was about.

[Urs]

Thank you both for the sincere explanations!

I am beginning to understand.

Just to be meticulous:
with the new mode, if I have a 2-bar loop containing six short eighth notes scattered at separate positions, and I set up a 2-bar long MSEG with a custom curve to act on a parameter, will each note trigger the MSEG not from the beginning, but precisely from the playback position of that triggering note within those 2 bars?

If so, that would indeed be fantastic and practically indistinguishable from the tempo-synced, free-running, cyclical, customizable modulation source all the fuss was about.

Yes.

There is one exception: If the loop in the DAW wraps out of sync, say it loops after 5 quarters of an 8 quarters loop, the notes that "survive" the wrap (typically being released and ringing out) will not somehow resync. But I honestly would not know how any Complex LFO/MSEG could cope with such a situation, as many DAWs maintain a continuous beat counter across looped regions.

[ptnah]

yeah, such an edge case surely would cause trouble anywhere anyhow.


wow, super cool! what a nice ending to the whole discussion.
looking very much forward to the implementation.

thank you, Urs!

[exmatproton]

yeah, such an edge case surely would cause trouble anywhere anyhow.


wow, super cool! what a nice ending to the whole discussion.
looking very much forward to the implementation.

thank you, Urs!

+1

[PieBerger]

IMHO, the issue here is there are too many workarounds in Zebra 3, yet it lacks the ability to do a number of things in the most basic and standard ways. It's currently a synth with unnecessary level of complexity and thus the workflow can easily become quite messy.

There's no issue here.

Zebra 3 is not the synth for you. It's obvious from the many posts you've made heavily criticizing various aspects of the synth. That's fine. You're point of view is valid for you. No synth pleases everyone. The u-he design philosophy just isn't what you want.

No, don't be like that. Don't be an apologist for Urs, some criticisms are valid and you shouldn't be shutting them down. "But look, it works for me!" is not really a good answer to valid criticism.

I'm with pdxindy on this one, u-he have a way of doing things and it appeals to some people and not to others, but for the others they don't STFU about it they just keep asking for stuff according to their preferences. It's like going to a restaurant and constantly asking them to make a meal that's not on the menu, because other restaurants have it. In this context u-he have been serving up the same meals for 20+ years and a look into (their albeit limited) financials, shows that it's a healthy company, so they can and probably will keep serving the meals they're interested in making, for the people who want them and naysayers can and should go and fill their boots elsewhere

[exmatproton]

IMHO, the issue here is there are too many workarounds in Zebra 3, yet it lacks the ability to do a number of things in the most basic and standard ways. It's currently a synth with unnecessary level of complexity and thus the workflow can easily become quite messy.

There's no issue here.

Zebra 3 is not the synth for you. It's obvious from the many posts you've made heavily criticizing various aspects of the synth. That's fine. You're point of view is valid for you. No synth pleases everyone. The u-he design philosophy just isn't what you want.

No, don't be like that. Don't be an apologist for Urs, some criticisms are valid and you shouldn't be shutting them down. "But look, it works for me!" is not really a good answer to valid criticism.

I'm with pdxindy on this one, u-he have a way of doing things and it appeals to some people and not to others, but for the others they don't STFU about it they just keep asking for stuff according to their preferences. It's like going to a restaurant and constantly asking them to make a meal that's not on the menu, because other restaurants have it. In this context u-he have been serving up the same meals for 20+ years and a look into (their albeit limited) financials, shows that it's a healthy company, so they can and probably will keep serving the meals they're interested in making, for the people who want them and naysayers can and should go and fill their boots elsewhere

If we didn't said anything, Z3 would be different at release. Check all the BETA-threads and the back and forths there. I think it has been quite a healthy dev-period honestly

[Urs]

There was a lot of constructive criticism. But also a lot of useless outrage about how dare you do things differently than all the same-same stuff that I prefer. I don't care about that kind of chatter.

[PieBerger]

IMHO, the issue here is there are too many workarounds in Zebra 3, yet it lacks the ability to do a number of things in the most basic and standard ways. It's currently a synth with unnecessary level of complexity and thus the workflow can easily become quite messy.

There's no issue here.

Zebra 3 is not the synth for you. It's obvious from the many posts you've made heavily criticizing various aspects of the synth. That's fine. You're point of view is valid for you. No synth pleases everyone. The u-he design philosophy just isn't what you want.

No, don't be like that. Don't be an apologist for Urs, some criticisms are valid and you shouldn't be shutting them down. "But look, it works for me!" is not really a good answer to valid criticism.

I'm with pdxindy on this one, u-he have a way of doing things and it appeals to some people and not to others, but for the others they don't STFU about it they just keep asking for stuff according to their preferences. It's like going to a restaurant and constantly asking them to make a meal that's not on the menu, because other restaurants have it. In this context u-he have been serving up the same meals for 20+ years and a look into (their albeit limited) financials, shows that it's a healthy company, so they can and probably will keep serving the meals they're interested in making, for the people who want them and naysayers can and should go and fill their boots elsewhere

If we didn't said anything, Z3 would be different at release. Check all the BETA-threads and the back and forths there. I think it has been quite a healthy dev-period honestly

I'm aware yes, but wrt this specific issue of 'too many workarounds' I'm going to stand my ground with alongside pdxindy. If a modular approach, with it's pros and cons, doesn't appeal, go elsewhere. To add another analogy, it's like people going to Ikea and complaining that you have to build everything yourself

[exmatproton]

There was a lot of constructive criticism. But also a lot of useless outrage about how dare you do things differently than all the same-same stuff that I prefer. I don't care about that kind of chatter.

Sure. I agree..sorry if i was one of those. Not intended.

[Urs]

No worries.

[zerocrossing]

If you come up with a better solution for something, that’s always welcome. Serum’s drag and drop solution for modulation assignments was a breakthrough that few people criticized, if any. If you come up with a different solution that is just different for the sake of being different, you will find yourself at the end of a lot of criticism.

The good news is, people only bother to be critical of something they care about.

[Lbdunequest]

Urs,

Now that Zebra 3 can sound like anything, is there a place for Diva?

Also I don't remember if i asked, but will there be more premade wavetables in Zebra 3? For now it kinda feels empty in that area, especially for those who dont want to create own wavetables.