Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[BONES]

Fascinating stuff from a man who was there at the time and is still going -

[sellyoursoul]

Nice try Arturia/Mark. Arturia's stuff is okay.

[BONES]

Yet still more than good enough for someone with a room full of the real things. Of course, he's focused on creating music, rather than being obsessed with the softsynths sounding exactly like the hardware, which is informed by the fact that the hardware never sounded the same two days in a row anyway. i.e. He has the proper perspective, he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

[wagtunes]

Yet still more than good enough for someone with a room full of the real things. Of course, he's focused on creating music, rather than being obsessed with the softsynths sounding exactly like the hardware, which is informed by the fact that the hardware never sounded the same two days in a row anyway. i.e. He has the proper perspective, he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Bones, you're wasting your breath on these guys. It's a losing battle trying to talk logic around here.

[stoopicus]

Nice try Arturia/Mark. Arturia's stuff is okay.

Arturia's softsynths are outstanding. Their hardware is too. And when they are a combination workflow with both (like the MiniFreak) it's next-level, best in class good.

Don't get so hung up on absolute fidelity to the original, that's just winesnobbing.

Yet still more than good enough for someone with a room full of the real things. Of course, he's focused on creating music, rather than being obsessed with the softsynths sounding exactly like the hardware, which is informed by the fact that the hardware never sounded the same two days in a row anyway. i.e. He has the proper perspective, he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Yeah. It's funny how perspectives change. Back in the '80s, when digital synths started taking over, we were all so damned happy to be freed from all the ramshackle QC we had to deal with with the analogs and their widely varying build quality, *particularly* from big names like Sequential and Moog.

For a while there, while people were dumping their analog gear, you could buy it for pennies on the dollar in the used market. We were mostly glad to be rid of it.

[machinesworking]

Yet still more than good enough for someone with a room full of the real things. Of course, he's focused on creating music, rather than being obsessed with the softsynths sounding exactly like the hardware, which is informed by the fact that the hardware never sounded the same two days in a row anyway. i.e. He has the proper perspective, he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Here's the issue, I think Kraftwerk and Devo are excellent examples of groups that were miles better when they struggled with "crappy" analog gear, they absolutely blew chunks when the digital age hit, and partially it's because they both embraced digital synths right away. They both built their sound around noisy analog synths that could barely stay in tune, and when that was stripped away they sounded like ass. I'm not even one to deny how great digital synths can be, honestly mostly I favored samplers over synths in the 90's etc. It's just hard to take someone, even someone I respect like Mark, seriously when IMO his whole sound was compromised the moment he discovered VA synths etc. Kraftwerk are the ultimate example of this, up until Computer world they really used very little digital and sampling tech, and when they did with Electric Cafe etc. they lost any edge they had.

I do not at all think it matters in general if you start with a computer and VSTs etc. but if you built your sound around noise then strip that all away, you're not going to strike me as a reliable source even for your own music. New Traditionalists was where Mark even decided to replace the drummer with a drum machine, and that was the dumbest mistake he ever made, that guy was a clock, and they lost any groove they had. Sometimes, the harder way is better.

Atomika is an example of what Arturia should be capable of, that emulation captures the dirt of old hardware, but for the most part all of Arturia's virtual analogs sound like Nord VA's, clean and in need of effects. No different with the Memorymoog VI here, too thin and clean. (it's better than the Cherry emulation though) Marks Memorymoog likely suffers from the famous tuning issues they had so his point here has that merit.

[Seafire Mk2]

Fascinating stuff from a man who was there at the time and is still going

...and getting paid by Arturia

[zerocrossing]

Nice try Arturia/Mark. Arturia's stuff is okay.

Arturia's softsynths are outstanding. Their hardware is too. And when they are a combination workflow with both (like the MiniFreak) it's next-level, best in class good.

Don't get so hung up on absolute fidelity to the original, that's just winesnobbing.

Yet still more than good enough for someone with a room full of the real things. Of course, he's focused on creating music, rather than being obsessed with the softsynths sounding exactly like the hardware, which is informed by the fact that the hardware never sounded the same two days in a row anyway. i.e. He has the proper perspective, he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Yeah. It's funny how perspectives change. Back in the '80s, when digital synths started taking over, we were all so damned happy to be freed from all the ramshackle QC we had to deal with with the analogs and their widely varying build quality, *particularly* from big names like Sequential and Moog.

For a while there, while people were dumping their analog gear, you could buy it for pennies on the dollar in the used market. We were mostly glad to be rid of it.

I worked in a music shop back then, and while we did get a few choice synths and whatnot come in for trades for the Yamaha and Casio synths of the day, but it wasn't a flood. I remember the manager taking a TX816 and a Roland... I can't remember which, maybe Jupiter 6 or Juno, and layered them together for this string sound that was amazing. The blend of the "cold" (his words) and the lush warm analog made for a tremendous sound. After his demo, there wasn't a sales person who wasn't clear on how both of these technologies had merits.

But things go in cycles. For a bit, Grunge pushed synth pop out of the charts and everyone was listening to Nirvana and Soundgarden, though Nine Inch Nails had its day, obviously. Most synth stuff was a bit underground, or in the world of Rap and Funk. I sold my analog and FM for an all digital workstation, but the synth type wasn't important to me. I wanted something with a wide range of sounds and a good sequencer. An Ensoniq TS-10. Along with a few Roland GR ROMplers, it was really my main synth and I rarely thought about analog.

But analog is really good at some things, that is true, and even some decent emulations can come across as weak or harsh when trying to do some stuff, like FM or even oscillator sync. Or it sounds good on the lower notes, but not up high. Still, very usable, but clearly not as good at some sounds. Most classic sounds don't really go there, so it's fine for most people. But there are a handful of emulations that do go there, and I'd put them up against analog synths any day.

They've made so much progress that the whole argument is really moot. Especially when you have Behringer pumping out cheap analogs that sound great. Buy whatever you want and get down to making music. If you can't make a good sounding track with software, the problem is you. I keep a bunch of hardware analogs and hybrids around, but only because they're really unique instruments that go beyond any emulation, and that includes Arturia's PolyBrute. Could they make a PolyBrute plugin? Doubtful. I think it would need too much processing to get all the distortion, feedback and wavefolding right and provide 6 voices.

[Seafire Mk2]

he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Why hasn't he sold all his hardware then?

[TechHaus]

What's the best Mark Mothersbaugh film score?

[ksandvik]

Well, I would not like to pay $400 to fix a broken Jupiter-6 every six+ years, or have a Moog that sounds different from day to day. But just my own opinion.

[stoopicus]

What's the best Mark Mothersbaugh film score?

Easily We're All DEVO

[jamcat]

Yet still more than good enough for someone with a room full of the real things. Of course, he's focused on creating music, rather than being obsessed with the softsynths sounding exactly like the hardware, which is informed by the fact that the hardware never sounded the same two days in a row anyway. i.e. He has the proper perspective, he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Bones, you're wasting your breath on these guys. It's a losing battle trying to talk logic around here.

Yeah. these knob-jockeys only want to talk Bitwig.

[jamcat]

he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Why hasn't he sold all his hardware then?

Because he isn't desperate for money.

Also, what kind of idiot sells a prototype given to them by Bob Moog?
See, you've got me talking like BONES now.

[Seafire Mk2]

he's not an anal-retentive knob-jockey.

Why hasn't he sold all his hardware then?

Because he isn't desperate for money.

Didn't realise that was the only reason people sell stuff.

.

Also, what kind of idiot sells a prototype given to them by Bob Moog?

BONES would, he hates that filter.