Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[BONES]

Here's the issue, I think Kraftwerk and Devo are excellent examples of groups that were miles better when they struggled with "crappy" analog gear, they absolutely blew chunks when the digital age hit, and partially it's because they both embraced digital synths right away.

Well that's simply not true. Devo's early work was mostly guitar-driven, they got worse when the synths took over and pushed the guitars into the background, but that was still firmly in the era of analogue synths.

Shout wasn't a terrible album because it was made with a Fairlight CMI, it was a terrible album because it had no guitars and, consequently, none of the energy of earlier releases. The problem wasn't that they had moved to a more digital set-up, it was that they thought the Fairlight could replace their guitars and that a LinnDrum could replace a real drummer. Once they learned their lesson, the guitars and live drums were back in Total Devo and it was a much better album, even though the Fairlight was still very much in use. In fact, I'd place Total Devo in the top half of Devo albums.

I never though Kraftwerk were anything but boring krap, so I wouldn't have noticed if they got worse.

But analog is really good at some things, that is true, and even some decent emulations can come across as weak or harsh when trying to do some stuff, like FM or even oscillator sync. Or it sounds good on the lower notes, but not up high. Still, very usable, but clearly not as good at some sounds.

Not better or worse, just different. e.g. Next to a bx_oberhausen patch with 32 voice unison, every hardware Oberheim synth sounds pathetically weak. And don't forget that the first successful digital synth was the DX-7 and it could blow any analogue synth out of the water when it came to hugeness. But it was a very different beast with mostly different uses to existing hardware.

Why hasn't he sold all his hardware then?

Because he hasn't had to, he's rich and getting richer by a million bucks a year without having to lift a finger, apparently. Nice for some...

Man paid by software company says software is cool (not that I disagree with him though).

Right, because a tiny company like Arturia could afford to buy the opinion of a man like Mark Mothersbaugh.

It's a paid endorsement, nothing to do with being desperate.

It's a customer testimonial. Companies seek them from customers all the time and they don't pay for them. There is no way a company the size of Arturia could afford to pay someone like Mark Mothersbaugh for his endorsement.

Not sure about tens, but he earns over a million a year from one theme song alone.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/devos-m ... ness-theme

And that's not even Devo's version, so he's only collecting publishing royalties.

For a while there, while people were dumping their analog gear, you could buy it for pennies on the dollar in the used market. We were mostly glad to be rid of it.

I had two TB303s that I literally couldn't give away. Eventually someone took one of them but I ended up putting the other one in the bin. I f**king hated the sound of those things, still do, but they were useful as sequencers to play better sounding synths before I could afford MIDI gear.

[Funky40]

SW wins* ! Why ?
HW wins* ! Why ?
(*to me)


Has ever anybody boilded things down to the real fortes of each tech-platform ?
I`ve not seen any.
I see people post a shitload of crap in any such thread.



The single most important factors in my world are these:
- we can make with any type of (Synth-) Instrument good music. Who claims other has some lack somewhere

- Each type of tech (Synths), from low level to high level gear has brought up tools that has inspired musicians tremendously.
- Good Music can be made with literally anything. BUT: The "musical outcome" will differ.

- with each platform, each tech, are we dealing with shortcomings, things that are uninspiring, counter to intuitiv usages. It`s just what it is.
- everything "pro vs. contra" IS context and usecase sensitiv, and whatnot. Any form of generalisations won`t work.

[Funky40]

Now, if you want to talk about the feel of playing an instrument where you turn knobs and slide sliders as opposed to moving a mouse, fine. I get that there might be a certain thrill of getting your hands on a Minimoog.

No, this is nolonger -necessarily- true either.

I have in comparison a multi10K.- HW modular besides my ITB-Rig.
Even my highly highly specialised -and live-jam optimised- HW Modular feels like a piece of old crap compared to my ITB setup vs. live-play/live-jam usages.
(EDIT: refering here to hand- keyboard-playing and also vs. dealing with FX / a modular has still it`s own thrill.....but the aspect of "to touch it"....feels like: to deal with old and outdated tech)

It`s NOT anylonger true that HW "just" has better haptics.
That argument falls ***especially*** vs. live-perform usages completly apart=> when live wiggling IS part of the game !

A tranquile sunday afternoon with a Synth, just prepping some presets, or just experimenting around vs. sound creation, that could still be debated. Some like this, some like that.

But "live-jam" thats a "functionality" thing.
Some things vs. ITB-setups became possible only in the last 2-3-4 years. NOT exactly bevore.
Things have changed. Numbers have changed. The game is nolonger same !

[whyterabbyt]

he's rich and getting richer by a million bucks a year without having to lift a finger, apparently.
.
.
.
Right, because a tiny company like Arturia could afford to buy the opinion of a man like Mark Mothersbaugh.

A million bucks a year works out at under $3000 a day. Obviously a tiny company worth only $200 million, with a turnover of $65 million per year, couldnt afford the time it takes to make an 8-minute video.

[Aloysius]

DEVOlution from hardware to software.

[zerocrossing]

Fascinating stuff from a man who was there at the time and is still going

...and getting paid by Arturia

True. Also, while he's penned some of the most memorable soundtracks, it's clear he's one of those guys who really doesn't have more synthesizer knowledge than half the people here. From the way he talked, I'd say that I'm more on top of the synthesizer world than Mothersbaugh, and I wouldn't consider myself to be an expert.

That said, I think Arturia is an excellent company, for the most part. It's still a bit spotty, as their older instruments aren't up to new standards that were pioneered by U-He, Softube, GForce, etc. They also lean on adding modern features to the classics more than rigorous adherence to accuracy. People might end up thinking that's bad, but I think it's good. For instance, their parameters are usually a lot wider than the synths that they're emulating. They add more modulation and other features. If you're doing something that you want to sound as authentic to the 70s or 80s, you're better off with something else, but if you want the vintage vibe and want to experiment, they're the best in the business.

[zerocrossing]

Here's the issue, I think Kraftwerk and Devo are excellent examples of groups that were miles better when they struggled with "crappy" analog gear, they absolutely blew chunks when the digital age hit, and partially it's because they both embraced digital synths right away.

Is it this, or is it because bands usually burn through their good ideas after a handful of albums, or sometimes even a single album? I don't think anyone could say for sure, as there isn't really a way to do an experiment with a control group. Guys like Trent Reznor never really changed their approach that much, and his pop music got fairly stale, even while he was using classic analog and digital hardware. I saw that U2 had a more recent album out, and when I checked out it, they sounded exactly like they've always sounded, but none of the songs were remotely memorable. I actually thought their best stuff was when they got more experimental with their production in the Zooropa era.

Anyway, I just think it's perilous to blame gear on a lack of creativity. I've heard great things made with plugins and crap made with hardware.

[DrOcsid]

Shout wasn't a terrible album because it was made with a Fairlight CMI, it was a terrible album because it had no guitars and, consequently, none of the energy of earlier releases.

That energy is better attributed to the songwriting than the guitars. Guitars would not have saved most of the songs on Shout. The thin-sounding production didn't help though.

As for the whole "paid endorsement" thing, yeah, it's pretty apparent that's what this is, but at the very least from watching the video he seems fairly genuine to me. I can believe Mark genuinely likes Arturia products, though it does puzzle me that he specifically has a Keylab Essential in this studio of inordinately expensive gear.

Ultimately skepticism is the best policy when it comes to producer/musician endorsements, but at the very least this one I find a bit more believable than, say, all the Waves stuff they plastered Chris Lord-Alge's name all over.

[stoopicus]

The idea that since this is an Arturia video it implies that Mothersbaugh is bullshitting about using software synths - that is a pretty hilarious nonsequitur

[Vortifex]

Deleted

[Vortifex]

Here's the issue, I think Kraftwerk and Devo are excellent examples of groups that were miles better when they struggled with "crappy" analog gear, they absolutely blew chunks when the digital age hit

This is what happened to Tangerine Dream. They went from wonderful hypnotic analog soundscapes to pure cheese. Le Parc and Underwater Sunlight were their last good albums.

[TechHaus]

DEVO was a long time ago. Let's talk movie and tv scores!

He did the music for Sega CD's Sewer Shark! The Rugrats movies!

[DrOcsid]

To be fair, DEVO has far more recent output than the Sega CD.

That said, it always stuck out to me how he had a recurring segment on that weird kids show Yo Gabba Gabba. Also took me a long time to realize that "Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get a Clue" theme song everyone hates was him as well.

[VOODOO U]

f**k hardware and f**k Arturia. I use freebies and get the job done.

[IvyBirds]

INow, if you want to talk about the feel of playing an instrument where you turn knobs and slide sliders as opposed to moving a mouse, fine. I get that there might be a certain thrill of getting your hands on a Minimoog. But sound wise? You couldn't tell the difference between a hardware Minimoog and The Legend buried in the mix of a song.

Screenshot_20260605-130200.jpg

That's a SFC-Mini V4. It's a MIDI Controller that I got specifically to use with the Legend HZ. I can also use it with any Minimoog Plugin

Beyond that however I have set it up to work with Omnisphere, UVI Falcon, and dozens of other plugins I own that use Subtractive Synthesis.

So I get the hands on workflow of using a Minimoog, with any subtractive synth so I can make any synth

That of course is designed for Synths with 3 Oscillators so I also have this one

Screenshot_20260605-131624.jpg

This allows me to turn any subtractive synth plugin I own into a single osc Juno style synth with the same hands on workflow

Will be getting the Jupiter 8 version at some point over the next few months for 2 OSC subtractive Synthesis

It's insane fun doing this and totally removes the need for actual hardware, and I still have my own universal custom controller setup for when I want to do that also. The whole point of these are they create deliberate limitations and shoehorn you into certain workflows that create different results than you normally would get