Help choosing a groovebox

[holonology]

Hi folks, so I’m just looking to clarify a purchase decision. I’ve been making music in a DAW and playing with some friends devices, plus I've owned a few pieces over the years. I'm down to Ableton Move, which I like for melodic playing. But I’d like a hardware groovebox to add a different way of sequencing to what Ableton can do. And I’m even considering a cheap pair of boxes for an off the grid (aka: away from the computer) fun jamming setup, maybe not even for recording. Primarily samples with a pinch of synths here and there.

Here’s what I’ve tried and liked/disliked.

Novation Circuits.
Pros: super fun to use.
Cons: a little limited. Synth engine a bit hit & miss.

TE KO-2.
Pro: Sounds great.
Cons: Didn’t really enjoy the interface

Polyend Tracker/Play.
Pros: Great generative features. Nice screen.
Cons: lack of performability compared to the circuit. Playing way less fun on the tiny pads.

Elektron Tonverk.
Pros: poly workstation, with amazing sound and effects.
Cons: since release it seems to be shaping up more like a synth and I was looking for a sampler with key features like slicing.

Feels like I’m looking for the middle ground. I wouldn't go up to the MPC level because that is also complex. OP-XY looks fun but crazy expensive.

I’m debating either:

Going back to the Circuits. I think my favourite of all the devices I've sold would probably be the Rhythm. The Circuits are lappable, quick and easy to use. I like the fact as a pair they do a lot. Poly/mono in a pair, and really nice sequencer. Sound quality and synth engine was the main gripe way back when. No audio over USB is still a bummer.

The Elektron Models. A more basic version of what I thought was fun but a little bit OTT on Tonverk. Limited yes. Lots of positive reviews about knob per function and excellent for whipping up some grooves. A little Aphex weirdness with the Cycles, plus sample swapping and detail on the Samples. No Overbridge but there is Underbridge. The main drawback I see with this is the need for loads of cables (power, USB, MIDI), and I've heard some comments about long term build not being quite there, such as rubbing text, sketchy buttons etc.

Both these give samples and synths in a simple duo and for little cost. Or..

Digitakt II. Maybe a good all-in one? Could very nicely make a full track with this. If I change my mindset away from sampling synths to just sampling literally anything, this could be what I liked from the Rhythm but supercharged. And all in one box.

Feels mad to be considering the cheap boxes vs Digitakt II but I think there is some method in that madness. I do like knob per function, but I wonder if anyone had a take on these potential setups?

[cryophonik]

Digitakt II all the way, if you ask me. It's far more capable than the Models, more tracks, more storage, better construction, Overbridge, etc. Another option is the Syntakt, which is the Digitakt's analog/sample-based equivalent, but I personally prefer the Digitakt II (I actually replaced my Syntakt with my DTII).

Another option to consider is a Maschine Plus? It's a pretty incredible all-in-one groovebox/production station.

[holonology]

Cheers! Yeah I saw the Syntakt, and the new update looks great, but I must admit I would make use of the sample chopping on Digitakt, so that might seal it potentially.

[Constructed Identity]

I got a Digitakt after selling my Novation Circuit. Better build, long cord for playing on your bed/couch, nice effects, and it comes with some pretty good samples.

[holonology]

The long cord would be really handy!

[ElVincente]

Have you looked at the synthstrom deluge ? It has nice sampling and huge sequencing capacities...

[holonology]

Yeah I think my comment about the Play+ would probably apply there. It does look dope, but I'd be concerned about those little buttons that I wasn't sure about on the Play+ being similar on the Deluge. Don't get me wrong it looks like a great piece of kit though. Maybe I should research it with the new firmware a bit more.

[Funky40]

For me always Elektron for Groovebox uses.

DT2 is -to me- the quickest for quick percussion/drum stuff.
Has NO per Track Delay !
Has a limited number of P-locks. wait.....80,.....in total. DT1 can do 72. ( 16 vs. 8 audio tracks)
When i finally started to use my DT2 besides some small first tests, was i out of P-lock already on the 6th track. Figure that.

Tonverk can do Delay per track ! Can do up to 512 p-locks .....per Track ( all sorts of locks, condition-locks combined)
It allows for great creative work with comps and hottifier-FX on drums etc. .Which can have huge impact on how you can make it groove.
Has latency though. And from there -in my opinion- not exactly suited for "any" sort of workflow.
The FX situation in combination with the subgroups makes it much more flexible for many things.
While each subtrack machine is like 8 tracks in one ( sort of....to some degree). Use it for example to load whole grooves/beats. For example same in different variations. etc., etc.

DT is definitly quickest.
Tonverk has much more creative potential.

[zerocrossing]

Another option to consider is a Maschine Plus? It's a pretty incredible all-in-one groovebox/production station.

My v1 Maschine still gets use from time to time, and if I needed something to bring around to live gigs, I would definitely consider a Maschine+.

[holonology]

DT is definitly quickest.
Tonverk has much more creative potential.

This I think is why I wasn't sure about Tonverk. Not that I don't want the creative potential, and I definitely wouldn't run out of p-locks. But I do prefer to get in and out when creating grooves and ideas. Also, I was under the impression that TV was a sampler, but the addition of the wave machine makes me think it's becoming a synth (which makes sense with Tonverk being the name.) I think you nailed it there. I prefer quick (relatively speaking) so that might be why Tonverk felt a bit too much. I assume it will get more options (not less) and so DTII might be more my speed for the tunes I make.

[Funky40]

DT is definitly quickest.
Tonverk has much more creative potential.

This I think is why I wasn't sure about Tonverk. Not that I don't want the creative potential, and I definitely wouldn't run out of p-locks. But I do prefer to get in and out when creating grooves and ideas. Also, I was under the impression that TV was a sampler, but the addition of the wave machine makes me think it's becoming a synth (which makes sense with Tonverk being the name.) I think you nailed it there. I prefer quick (relatively speaking) so that might be why Tonverk felt a bit too much. I assume it will get more options (not less) and so DTII might be more my speed for the tunes I make.

For very simple grooves with very few tracks i find the TV quicker. Especially towards techno/technoid. Just the availability of enough Comps and hottifier-FX makes the groove creation for me faster. I had awesome results in no time just by using two comps on a kick. Make "that" times 2, for two kick tracks. I can nail the sound quicker, it inspires me more.

But to fill track by track by track with samples, programm triggers and p-locks, and make more dense Beats, creative beats based on the trigger works, DT is to me for now much quicker. There are also several subtelties vs. all the button press work that makes the DT to me much quicker. But i used a DT1 for years. While i could see one becoming on the TV as quick. Just a matter of time spent i`d guess.

What the TV lacks is a: "collect samples and create new folder" option.
As is right now, can`t you re-arrange your samples on your CF-card. Your patterns/sequenzes won`t find the samples again. That`s to me a HUGE drawback.
Then there is the latency/Sync issue. Since i use these boxes right now all just standalone ( just for some HW fun) is this for me so far not a problem.

i also nolonger do complex stuff on such machines, just "partial-grooves" work.
There, i find the TV for me faster, more inspiring.

It`s a very tough decission between the two. But i think for many folks can the TV be a DT replacement.
And i think for many, but NOT everybody, would the TV be the better decission. Really a tough one if it`s about those two, but take just one.
I got a very low-down B-stock when i bought the TV a 2nd time again.
"Then" the TV has much more appeal to get one (ohh, check thomann it`s still there......no clue in which part of the world you are )

DT is the granted quick.
TV is the better investment, imho

[Constructed Identity]

There are a bunch of Syntakts for sale used now and they can play samples.
I have seen multiple YouTube videos of people doing whole songs on one.
It doesn't sample itself though, so that is its limitation.

Honestly your biggest problem now with choosing a groovebox is your paralyzed with too many choices.

[cryophonik]

There are a bunch of Syntakts for sale used now and they can play samples.

Yeah, I noticed that too, and the secondhand prices seem to have plunged a bit since they got the firmware update. Very strange...

Although, I bought a Syntakt right after the last update because sample support was something I always felt it needed. However, I was really disappointed by how limited the sample capacity and capabilities were, so I sold it pretty quickly and replaced it with a Digitakt II (which is excellent!). I don't get Elektron sometimes - Syntakt has a 1GB drive that is almost empty, so why are they so stingy with the sample capacity?

[Uncle E]

The original Play was great but the synths in Play+ make it convoluted to use. There's just too much going on for that interface.

The Models are extremely limited. I actually found them harder to use than the bigger Elektron's, due to how handicapped they are.

+1 on Digitakt, Maschine+, and Tonverk. They're all excellent.