Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[TechHaus]

^^^^^^ Jim nails it here (two posts up).

Someone tried to say Devo covers were the same as cover bands which is ironically the most Devo thing in this thread so far. Calling Devos version of Satisfaction a cover...

Chilllllll I didn't say all that! I was like John Stockton setting someone up for the dunk.

[Seafire Mk2]

Are you serious?

Have a guess

I don’t think there’s any reason to declare some phony moral superiority over others.

If only more people thought this way...

[Seafire Mk2]

^^^^^^ Jim nails it here (two posts up).

The idea that musicians are supposed to write their own original material is a very mid- to late-20th century, rock and folk kind of idea. If you look at almost any other type of music - jazz, classical, blues, flamenco, whatever - there's no assumption that players also write the material they perform.

Look, I never jumped into this discussion to make fun of wedding bands, but the absolute ridiculousness of someone claiming that a cover band is more "authentic" than someone who wrote all their own material (and doesn't see the point in dragging a modular synth onstage to play the three note backing track, much less hire someone to do that) is too much to ignore.

There are as has been almost pointed out, two distinct talents in music: skill or mastery of an instrument and/or recording equipment, and ability to come up with original material. They are not the same, I mean it's literally why in the late 70's there were multiple genres of music that jettisoned classical training and went straight to writing, with varying degrees of success of course. What this opened up was the ability to write music, I mean literally. Your examples, jazz, classical, blues, flamenco. They're all almost dead art forms, not in the sense that people don't' listen to them, but in the sense that it's almost impossible to get past the gatekeepers and become even marginally successful unless you're doing all covers.

I don't even think people would be discussing this if it wasn't a subject started by someone claiming that any amount of recorded material onstage was cheating etc. who turned out to play in a cover band. There again are two main talents involved in music, skill at playing the instrument or mixing desk etc. and ability to come up with original material. One is a craft and the other is art. A cover band and a DJ spinning other peoples records are craft, a band playing it's own material or a DJ scratching is art. In my mind the original argument was hilarious because the closest thing to a cover band I can think of is a DJ, and what they were complaining about was that original artists sometimes used DJ techniques to present their music!

One other thing, Johnny Cash or Elvis having people write their music is pretty much an entirely different subject, if you think somehow that their voices aren't intrinsically more than just an instrument but a creative expression unto themselves then you're living on a different planet. Someone tried to say Devo covers were the same as cover bands which is ironically the most Devo thing in this thread so far. Calling Devos version of Satisfaction a cover...

We have a winner

[machinesworking]

Jazz is thriving at the moment (I think) and it's not really covers based

Good point, how many people break out and are remembered outside of local scenes writing their own songs? That's more what I was talking about. Any Jazz cover is going to be so unlike the original as to be unrecognizable at times, and there are plenty of people writing classical style music for film etc. but they will not be regarded in the same way years from now like Mozart etc. The "giants" in the field are too big to match, whereas modern music is still wide open for the most part.

I suppose some of that is the starving artist effect, it's possible someone like Danny Elfman is still regarded 100 years from now, but living in the time that he's around makes it near impossible to predict who survives judgment.

[VOODOO U]

Devo covered some songs.

I'm only aware of one (which got me into the band).

[machinesworking]

Devo covered some songs.

I'm only aware of one (which got me into the band).

Satisfaction, Are You Experienced, Secret Agent Man, and Working in a Coal Mine. Probably missing a few. Not one of them sounds anything like the original.

[VOODOO U]

Oh shit forgot about the Hendrix one (I'm a huge Hendrix fan and feel ashamed).
Didn't realize coalmine was a cover. I'm pretty sure I'll like Devo's version better.

[machinesworking]

Secret Agent Man much much much better than the original. this is an early messier version. Seems to be from when they were a four piece? great video.

[IvyBirds]

Oh shit forgot about the Hendrix one (I'm a huge Hendrix fan and feel ashamed).
Didn't realize coalmine was a cover. I'm pretty sure I'll like Devo's version better.

Hendrix played lots of covers

[zerocrossing]

Devo covered some songs.

But it gave them no satisfaction, even though they tried, and they tried.

[BONES]

Let's say you're at a venue at a popular lake... and the place is packed.
Unless you're a big-name artist with large draw, nobody in that audience is going to want to hear your original material. They want to hear songs they know/love... and dance/party/sing-along.

You might think that but my experience is quite different. I started performing live in a town in Far North Queensland where the only live music they ever got to hear were cover bands on a "circuit", who'd breeze into town, do a few nights at one of the pubs or clubs and then move on to the next town. It was good, steady work for those guys and they'd maybe get 100 or so punters to a gig. But in my first year-and-a-bit as a performer I got to play gigs every week and performed to more than 1,000 punters on three separate occasions. And I was basically terrible back then. Of course, that was the 1980s and people were far more open to different kinds of music than they are today. But they were definitely starved for bands playing original material and it was easy to pull a crowd.

Here's the thing about cover bands (some get it... some don't), the show isn't about you (the musician), it's about the audience.

Yeah, just like a DJ. But there are cover bands and there are cover bands. Lemonheads were a cover band, for example.

Here in OH, unknown original acts don't get paid much if anything. In fact, they often have to pay-to-play.

That's called "the price of artistic integrity".

Top-tier cover bands can make significant money ($2-7k per show)

And that's just making money off the back of other people's artistry. Or maybe just plain, old prostitution?

That means playing cover songs well, singing them well, doing what's necessary to cultivate/grow a draw/following, and learning to entertain/engage an audience.

It also means choosing songs that the audience will like, that you might think are awful, just to make a buck. Surely music is more important than that?

As a cover band, if you're a "poor imitation", that's on you... and is reflected in both your pay and the crowd you draw.

Unless you aren't trying to be an imitation at all, but rather to promote music you think deserves to be heard (which is what I do). Again, it comes down to whether you are in it for money or for the music.

Would I rather play original music? Not if it means small crowds and little/no pay.

OK, so you do put money ahead of music.

How many original artists actually write strong material?

Plenty.

Our guitar player is one of the best in OH. Graduated from Berklee.
He's an incredible player. He's "less incredible" when it comes to writing songs.
Vastly different skills.

The former I have zero respect for, the latter I have at least some.

Satisfaction, Are You Experienced, Secret Agent Man, and Working in a Coal Mine. Probably missing a few. Not one of them sounds anything like the original.

They also covered this, which I believe is a Grateful Dead song -

[Bunny_boy]

Jazz is thriving at the moment (I think) and it's not really covers based

Good point, how many people break out and are remembered outside of local scenes writing their own songs?

Tomeka Reid, Mary Halvorson, Tomas Fujiwara, Nubya Garcia, Seb Roachford, and Shabaka Hutchings seems to be doing pretty well internationally (off the top of my head)

[BONES]

Never heard of any of 'em.

[Seafire Mk2]

[Gamma-UT]

Never heard of any of 'em.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Now if you haven't heard of Valentina Magaletti (someone else who fits into Bunny_boy's list), you are probably missing out – her earlier collabs do venture into industrial territory at times, though it's been more dub and dancehall recently.