Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[TechHaus]

Terrace Martin and an obvious one Kamasi Washington - 2 jazz dudes that come to mind.

[Gamma-UT]

Ezra Collective are now doing cognac ads: https://www.courvoisier.com/en-gb/ezra-collective/

I liked 'em before they were famous. Etc etc...

[stoopicus]

The idea that there is something wrong with playing covers is flat out weird.

I simply really dislike doing it.

[Jim Roseberry]

Let's say you're at a venue at a popular lake... and the place is packed.
Unless you're a big-name artist with large draw, nobody in that audience is going to want to hear your original material. They want to hear songs they know/love... and dance/party/sing-along.

You might think that but my experience is quite different. I started performing live in a town in Far North Queensland where the only live music they ever got to hear were cover bands on a "circuit", who'd breeze into town, do a few nights at one of the pubs or clubs and then move on to the next town. It was good, steady work for those guys and they'd maybe get 100 or so punters to a gig. But in my first year-and-a-bit as a performer I got to play gigs every week and performed to more than 1,000 punters on three separate occasions. And I was basically terrible back then. Of course, that was the 1980s and people were far more open to different kinds of music than they are today. But they were definitely starved for bands playing original material and it was easy to pull a crowd.

It's nothing like that in the Columbus, OH area.
Over the past 4 decades, we've had a select few original bands that "made it" on a national level.
It's a feast for these acts... and famine for the unknowns who don't draw.

Here in OH, unknown original acts don't get paid much if anything. In fact, they often have to pay-to-play.

That's called "the price of artistic integrity".

I've never done a "pay-to-play" gig.
Artistic integrity means different things to different folks.
A slum-lord club owner forcing me to sell tickets to his venue isn't my idea of artistic integrity.

Top-tier cover bands can make significant money ($2-7k per show)

And that's just making money off the back of other people's artistry. Or maybe just plain, old prostitution?

This relates back to "artistic integrity".
I don't feel like a whore.
I have some areas where I'm happy to compromise or make changes (if it makes the show better for the audience). There are also areas where I'm not willing to compromise.
ie: Pay-to-play
Money isn't the prime motivating factor... but... it certainly helps when you're driving 2.5 hours round-trip, staying at an air-bnb, and paying for commercial sound/light company.

That means playing cover songs well, singing them well, doing what's necessary to cultivate/grow a draw/following, and learning to entertain/engage an audience.

It also means choosing songs that the audience will like, that you might think are awful, just to make a buck. Surely music is more important than that?

Yes, we play some songs that aren't my cup-of-tea.
As a performer, it's my job to find a way to connect with every song.
If there's no connection, the performance lacks conviction.
Some songs, it's super easy. Others, it's more difficult.
Our drummer is really uptight about having to play things *exactly* like the original recording.
I'm of the mind that signature parts have to be note-for-note... but there's room to put your unique stamp or personality.
ie: When we play The Outfield's "Your Love", during the bridge section... I'm playing 7th chords.
That's not done on the original recording.
It's a small thing that few notice, but I like the change of mood.
Ironically, our drummer never noticed... until I mentioned it.

As a cover band, if you're a "poor imitation", that's on you... and is reflected in both your pay and the crowd you draw.

Unless you aren't trying to be an imitation at all, but rather to promote music you think deserves to be heard (which is what I do). Again, it comes down to whether you are in it for money or for the music.

I need to clarify, I'm not paying car/mortgage payments with gig money.
It's "fun money"... used primarily to fund gear and pay for hotel stays, food/drinks, etc when playing further away.
The rate of pay is a pride/ego thing. Of course it's nice to get paid well.
To me, it's a great feeling when you draw a large crowd, they love the show, and the venue makes significant money. As a cover band, that's our job. Good pay is recognition of a job well done.

I see your point of wanting to share your own music.
I'm sure that's an amazing feeling.
I don't see either as right/wrong good/bad... they're totally different scenarios.

Would I rather play original music? Not if it means small crowds and little/no pay.

OK, so you do put money ahead of music.

How many original artists actually write strong material?

Plenty.

I don't see it at all as "putting money first".
Like I mentioned, I've played empty venues... and packed venues.
If I have any choice in the matter, I'll take the packed house.
That may mean making compromises/changes.
I don't see it as "selling out".
The energy from a large fully-engaged crowd is amazing.
That's what I'm looking for... the back/forth energy.

As for local songwriters here in Columbus, OH:
Most of the unknown original bands wind up doing 30-minute opening slots for national acts.
Most of the material is pretty bad.
I can remember one harder rock act where the "hook" of the song was "F****, you f****d me up."
To me, that's pretty lame.

There is one particularly good songwriter here in town.
He fronts a couple different cover bands.
In his spare time, he writes good material... and there's a large group of us (all locals from numerous cover bands) that record those songs in a commercial studio.
We have a blast trying to serve the song the best we can.
Challenging in a completely different way than playing covers.
When the project is actually finished, we'll have a "release party" live gig somewhere.
It will be interesting to see the response.

[stoopicus]

It's nothing like that in the Columbus, OH area.

I completely believe you, but this is a really regional thing, apparently - for big cities on the west coast, cover bands of course exist and get plenty of gigs, but bars and clubs (at last the ones worth going to) have predominately original acts.

[Jim Roseberry]

It's nothing like that in the Columbus, OH area.

I completely believe you, but this is a really regional thing, apparently - for big cities on the west coast, cover bands of course exist and get plenty of gigs, but bars and clubs (at last the ones worth going to) have predominately original acts.

Are those original acts national or local?
Here in Columbus, we have larger clubs/venues that have national original acts.
We do have a small number of popular original acts: Rosie/The Godz (Chatfield also plays guitar with Grand Funk), McGuffey Lane (John Schwab), The Lonely Ones, Bobaflex.
21-Pilots, Starset, and Rascal Flatts are also from Columbus... but they're playing arenas/stadiums.
Rascal Flatts basically retired.

[VOODOO U]

Oh shit forgot about the Hendrix one (I'm a huge Hendrix fan and feel ashamed).
Didn't realize coalmine was a cover. I'm pretty sure I'll like Devo's version better.

Hendrix played lots of covers

Silly me I thought he wrote the star spangled banner.

[machinesworking]

There is a massive difference between Devo doing a version of Satisfaction or Hendrix doing the Star Spangled Banner and a cover band trying to sound as much like the original as possible.

Shouldn't even have to be said, but 2026 is all about false equivalencies I guess?

[Examigan]

Oh shit forgot about the Hendrix one (I'm a huge Hendrix fan and feel ashamed).
Didn't realize coalmine was a cover. I'm pretty sure I'll like Devo's version better.

Hendrix played lots of covers

Silly me I thought he wrote the star spangled banner.

[IvyBirds]

Here's the thing about cover bands (some get it... some don't), the show isn't about you (the musician), it's about the audience.
The venue hires a band to bring in a crowd... and keep/entertain them.
The band's job is to ultimately sell admission/food/drinks.

Here in OH, unknown original acts don't get paid much if anything. In fact, they often have to pay-to-play. If they don't sell all of their tickets to the show, they eat the cost of unsold tickets.
Top-tier cover bands can make significant money ($2-7k per show).

I've played to empty venues... and packed venues.
The later is a whole lot more fun.
That means playing cover songs well, singing them well, doing what's necessary to cultivate/grow a draw/following, and learning to entertain/engage an audience.
It's also important to be professional (looks, behavior, and musicianship).
There's zero Ethical/Moral conflict.
As a cover band, if you're a "poor imitation", that's on you... and is reflected in both your pay and the crowd you draw.

Would I rather play original music?
Not if it means small crowds and little/no pay.
How many original artists actually write strong material?
Our guitar player is one of the best in OH. Graduated from Berklee.
He's an incredible player. He's "less incredible" when it comes to writing songs.
Vastly different skills.

I've had a great time lately collaborating (recording) with a local songwriter.
Totally different than playing live gigs.

Elvis (not really my cup of tea) was hugely successful here in the US.
He played mostly covers.

Bingo. 1000% agree with everything

[BONES]

I don't see it at all as "putting money first".
Like I mentioned, I've played empty venues... and packed venues.
If I have any choice in the matter, I'll take the packed house.

What if you could pack the house by having no cover charge, would you do that? We do it regularly. A couple of the venues we play at leave the cover charge up to us so we charge nothing. We might make a bit from merch but it's rarely enough to cover our bar tab. Obviously if we had significant expenses we might want to try and recoup but the venues provide everything and our promotional costs are minimal. But we've traveled interstate, at significant expense to ourselves, and got no money from the gigs. If the promoter isn't making any money, we're not going to ask to be paid, even if we'd agreed a fee. When we've played internationally, it's always cost us thousands. Our appearance money usually only covers around quarter of our costs. We see it more as a holiday than anything.

[stoopicus]

It's nothing like that in the Columbus, OH area.

I completely believe you, but this is a really regional thing, apparently - for big cities on the west coast, cover bands of course exist and get plenty of gigs, but bars and clubs (at last the ones worth going to) have predominately original acts.

Are those original acts national or local?

local

[TechHaus]

Saw a Steely Dan tribute band listed in our local weekly paper called "Nearly Dan".

[machinesworking]

I don't see it at all as "putting money first".
Like I mentioned, I've played empty venues... and packed venues.
If I have any choice in the matter, I'll take the packed house.

What if you could pack the house by having no cover charge, would you do that? We do it regularly. A couple of the venues we play at leave the cover charge up to us so we charge nothing. We might make a bit from merch but it's rarely enough to cover our bar tab. Obviously if we had significant expenses we might want to try and recoup but the venues provide everything and our promotional costs are minimal. But we've traveled interstate, at significant expense to ourselves, and got no money from the gigs. If the promoter isn't making any money, we're not going to ask to be paid, even if we'd agreed a fee. When we've played internationally, it's always cost us thousands. Our appearance money usually only covers around quarter of our costs. We see it more as a holiday than anything.

This pretty much is the MAJOR difference between an artist and a working musician. I was the right age during the "Grunge" phenomenon in Seattle, I ended up knowing most of the famous local bands, I just didn't get it. I wasn't a super fan of Grunge, the only band I really liked was TAD and he wasn't getting famous on a Major since that scene is all about how pretty you are and how well your material fits on the radio.
I moved to Seattle because there was some Industrial scene here not knowing that 70's rock with punk affect was what was really happening. I could have gotten into the industry at some level but I never wanted music to be a job. Playing covers in county fairs etc. I would rather work construction, which is what I did.
I get it, I get than not everybody writes music and some people just want to be part of the industry, but personally I hate the industry, I just like writing music. Most of the best shows I've been to have been in someone's basement or at 100-500 capacity venues. Big shows pretty much blow.

[machinesworking]

It's nothing like that in the Columbus, OH area.

I completely believe you, but this is a really regional thing, apparently - for big cities on the west coast, cover bands of course exist and get plenty of gigs, but bars and clubs (at last the ones worth going to) have predominately original acts.

Are those original acts national or local?

local

There is a market for tribute bands on the west coast of the US here, but I would agree most bands are playing their own material. You have to go out of the city to find cover bands at casinos and local bars.