Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[IvyBirds]

It's nothing like that in the Columbus, OH area.

I completely believe you, but this is a really regional thing, apparently - for big cities on the west coast, cover bands of course exist and get plenty of gigs, but bars and clubs (at last the ones worth going to) have predominately original acts.

Are those original acts national or local?

local

There is a market for tribute bands on the west coast of the US here, but I would agree most bands are playing their own material. You have to go out of the city to find cover bands at casinos and local bars.

Los Angeles has a very robust market for cover bands, and you most certainly don't have to go out of the city

Besides the myriad of clubs, the corporate and event market is huge

Shall I post links of cover bands performing at venues all over Los Angeles?

[eassae]

Corn Mo does the best covers.

[machinesworking]

Los Angeles has a very robust market for cover bands, and you most certainly don't have to go out of the city

Besides the myriad of clubs, the corporate and event market is huge

Shall I post links of cover bands performing at venues all over Los Angeles?

LA is weird, no doubt, and I'm sure over at Microsoft HQ there's a cover band playing at someone's promotion every month at least.

I mean we're getting silly about this aren't we? Cover bands are an industry, but at least here in Seattle they are not playing all the places that host music for locals, you will find them in tourist traps like Pioneer Square etc. You will not find them at the Paramount, Crocodile etc. You will find Tribute bands though, Hells Bells an all woman AC/DC tribute band have been playing the same circuit that spawned Death Cab, Nirvana, Soundgarden etc. Even then they're one of the only ones that plays that circuit, the rest play casinos and fairgrounds.

There is a place for cover bands, and I doubt anyone would have given you any shit about it if you weren't then splitting hairs about whether sequencers or backing tracks or DJ's in Rap was faking it or not. Cover bands more or less get paid to sound enough like the original songs they cover to where people can have their nostalgic dopamine fix, but you the player are basically miming someone else's parts. The closer you mimic the original the more people are impressed. Not a big deal, but not really that far from a DJ playing all your favorite songs at the club. On a technical level of course it's much different. Anyway I think we've run this into the ground as hard as we can haven't we?

[Seafire Mk2]

Hells Belles, surely?

[IvyBirds]

Los Angeles has a very robust market for cover bands, and you most certainly don't have to go out of the city

Besides the myriad of clubs, the corporate and event market is huge

Shall I post links of cover bands performing at venues all over Los Angeles?

LA is weird, no doubt, and I'm sure over at Microsoft HQ there's a cover band playing at someone's promotion every month at least.

I mean we're getting silly about this aren't we? Cover bands are an industry, but at least here in Seattle they are not playing all the places that host music for locals, you will find them in tourist traps like Pioneer Square etc. You will not find them at the Paramount, Crocodile etc. You will find Tribute bands though, Hells Bells an all woman AC/DC tribute band have been playing the same circuit that spawned Death Cab, Nirvana, Soundgarden etc. Even then they're one of the only ones that plays that circuit, the rest play casinos and fairgrounds.

There is a place for cover bands, and I doubt anyone would have given you any shit about it if you weren't then splitting hairs about whether sequencers or backing tracks or DJ's in Rap was faking it or not. Cover bands more or less get paid to sound enough like the original songs they cover to where people can have their nostalgic dopamine fix, but you the player are basically miming someone else's parts. The closer you mimic the original the more people are impressed. Not a big deal, but not really that far from a DJ playing all your favorite songs at the club. On a technical level of course it's much different. Anyway I think we've run this into the ground as hard as we can haven't we?

It is wild to me how people like you completely lose the plot. Look at everything going on in the world right now—people are stressed, exhausted, and just trying to get by. Entertainment isn't trivial; it is a vital escape that keeps people sane. Bringing joy and a few hours of fun to someone’s day is incredibly important.Yet, instead of getting that, you’re on a forum manufacturing fake drama and attacking people over a completely separate debate.It makes perfect sense, though. Someone who thinks it's fine for 'live' music to be fake and phoned-in would naturally bring that same fake, artificial energy to a conversation. If you can't see the value in genuine entertainment, you're missing the entire point of why music exists

I get the sense that this thread values music strictly as a solitary art form created in a bedroom vacuum. But music is also meant to connect with people on a massive, celebratory scale. Cover bands exist because people want to go see the music they love performed live. They can stay home and listen to records after all. My job is simply to play the songs they came to see; they came for the music, not for me.

[Gamma-UT]

"My music is the only moral music."

[stoopicus]

"My music is the only moral music."

"You neuro-normatives just DON'T GET IT!"

[Tj Shredder]

There is a difference between a cover band and a band that plays a cover... Guess what...

[stoopicus]

There is a difference between a cover band and a band that plays a cover... Guess what...

Is it where they "sit" in the sauna?

[Tj Shredder]

No...

[Jim Roseberry]

I don't see it at all as "putting money first".
Like I mentioned, I've played empty venues... and packed venues.
If I have any choice in the matter, I'll take the packed house.

What if you could pack the house by having no cover charge, would you do that? We do it regularly. A couple of the venues we play at leave the cover charge up to us so we charge nothing. We might make a bit from merch but it's rarely enough to cover our bar tab. Obviously if we had significant expenses we might want to try and recoup but the venues provide everything and our promotional costs are minimal. But we've traveled interstate, at significant expense to ourselves, and got no money from the gigs. If the promoter isn't making any money, we're not going to ask to be paid, even if we'd agreed a fee. When we've played internationally, it's always cost us thousands. Our appearance money usually only covers around quarter of our costs. We see it more as a holiday than anything.

Friends of ours (American Dog) toured with Tesla.
When they returned home, they were $60k in debt (from the tour).
That was a bitter pill.
Michael (bass player/singer) had to get a real job.
He'd been a touring musician since he was in Salty Dog (80s band).

Some venues we play charge a $10 cover... others don't charge anything.
We've priced ourselves out of all but the larger venues.
We're at an awkward stage where we're not a bar-band... but not quite regional.
Last year, we played 56 shows. If you're full-time musician, that's no big deal.
If you're trying to balance career (not the band), family, and music... it's a lot.
This year, we'll probably wind up playing around 45.

Last weekend, lodging/food/drinks consumed my gig money.
Like you mentioned, we treat it like a weekend get-away.
We have a great time... and love the people.
The first time we played this lake, we sold $1700 in merch. Haven't done that before/since.
I remember talking with a client who's a famous drummer... and telling him.
As I was saying it... I'm thinking, this guy's used to playing arena/stadium shows. That's nothing.
It was cool because he could still relate to the excitement/experience of a small time band.
He mentioned that Metallica had sold over a million in merch... *before* they were signed.
That put our sales into perspective.

Clearly you're playing for the love of it.
That's something most all of us can relate to.

Let me ask this:
When you're done playing a show... and you're driving/traveling home, do you listen to music... or do you want silence? My wife thinks it's weird, but I like silence.
I deal with music/technology every day.
After playing four hours, it's nice to take a break (no music).

[BONES]

I could have gotten into the industry at some level but I never wanted music to be a job. Playing covers in county fairs etc.

I was the same and the decision I made back in the 1980s, when I got out of the Army, has only been vindicated by my experiences since then. I look at the bands in the genre/scene and I feel kind of sorry for them. They really suffer for their art, on a treadmill they can't afford to get off. They'll never have any of the nice things I have, they'll scratch out a living until they are old enough to get a pension.

I would rather work construction, which is what I did.

I managed a Pizza Hut until I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity to get into graphic design. Even here, the compromises I have to make every day as a graphic artist would be soul destroying if I had to make them in music, just to earn a living.

I get it, I get than not everybody writes music and some people just want to be part of the industry, but personally I hate the industry, I just like writing music. Most of the best shows I've been to have been in someone's basement or at 100-500 capacity venues. Big shows pretty much blow.

Sort of. Some big venues are good, many aren't. But, of course, you and I are coming at from a very different place. I'm sure there are wildly successful artists who absolutely love what they do, who aren't making any compromises because the kind of music they love to make has popular appeal. They don't realise how lucky they are that they can make a living without having to sacrifice their artistic integrity. I doubt Devo, for example, have made too many compromises along the way, they were just lucky to have been around at a time when you could do OK without making mainstream music.

[machinesworking]

Los Angeles has a very robust market for cover bands, and you most certainly don't have to go out of the city

Besides the myriad of clubs, the corporate and event market is huge

Shall I post links of cover bands performing at venues all over Los Angeles?

LA is weird, no doubt, and I'm sure over at Microsoft HQ there's a cover band playing at someone's promotion every month at least.

I mean we're getting silly about this aren't we? Cover bands are an industry, but at least here in Seattle they are not playing all the places that host music for locals, you will find them in tourist traps like Pioneer Square etc. You will not find them at the Paramount, Crocodile etc. You will find Tribute bands though, Hells Bells an all woman AC/DC tribute band have been playing the same circuit that spawned Death Cab, Nirvana, Soundgarden etc. Even then they're one of the only ones that plays that circuit, the rest play casinos and fairgrounds.

There is a place for cover bands, and I doubt anyone would have given you any shit about it if you weren't then splitting hairs about whether sequencers or backing tracks or DJ's in Rap was faking it or not. Cover bands more or less get paid to sound enough like the original songs they cover to where people can have their nostalgic dopamine fix, but you the player are basically miming someone else's parts. The closer you mimic the original the more people are impressed. Not a big deal, but not really that far from a DJ playing all your favorite songs at the club. On a technical level of course it's much different. Anyway I think we've run this into the ground as hard as we can haven't we?

It is wild to me how people like you completely lose the plot. Look at everything going on in the world right now—people are stressed, exhausted, and just trying to get by. Entertainment isn't trivial; it is a vital escape that keeps people sane. Bringing joy and a few hours of fun to someone’s day is incredibly important.Yet, instead of getting that, you’re on a forum manufacturing fake drama and attacking people over a completely separate debate.It makes perfect sense, though. Someone who thinks it's fine for 'live' music to be fake and phoned-in would naturally bring that same fake, artificial energy to a conversation. If you can't see the value in genuine entertainment, you're missing the entire point of why music exists

I get the sense that this thread values music strictly as a solitary art form created in a bedroom vacuum. But music is also meant to connect with people on a massive, celebratory scale. Cover bands exist because people want to go see the music they love performed live. They can stay home and listen to records after all. My job is simply to play the songs they came to see; they came for the music, not for me.

One of the forms of energy I bring to a conversation is I read what someone wrote and don't make up some false narrative straw man to attack.

I flatly said cover bands have their place, there's nostalgia involved, live music is fun.
I also said more or less that getting joe blow to play a sample of some modular synth sound you made live that only happens twice in a song while three other synth sounds happen, or getting someone to badly play drum machine samples etc. etc. is a joke.

There's an uncanny valley here that you're making up in your head. A sample of a phrase someone played, that's pretty much one of the first things we sampled into a Mirage in the 80's, a guitar bend. That, was the only line that "guitar" played in the song. I would never force a player to play such a simple but effective line. DJ's in Hip Hop completely made the turntable their instrument.

The fact you can be a solo artist writing all your parts and playin them back live singing and adding instrumentation over it is great. I've seen dozens of two piece acts because phrase samplers and Ableton Live exist. I've watched a guy onstage with ReNoise play his music in his DAW written without a keyboard or controller of any kind, and it was great. Conversely I've seen plenty of rock bands etc. etc.

I think you have a great point when it comes to big old school artists that just use backing tracks to either hide the fact they can't replicate what they did in the studio live, or they don't want to pay the musicians to play it live. That's bullshit, if you have the resources you shouldn't need to do that for traditional music. I have no respect for people that hide the computer, and act like they're playing the part when it's obvious they aren't

For electronic music though this is garbage take, since the 70's sampling has been part of it, and it brings it's own sound, too many riffs to count are not replicable in any real way by some musician, the "groove" is in the loop and how it fits with the rest of it. I really don't want to see someone screw up a TR707 track by playing it live. Then there's generative music, ambient guys that work in Max MSP etc. etc.

Personally I think it's up to us as listeners, I get that you don't enjoy listening to playback of studio wizardry, DJ's or likely Live clips, phrase samplers etc. Likely your taste doesn't land there anyway.

Again though, you're not making a good puritan what with you playing covers, it's the opposite of someone who writes their own music and uses backing tracks to play it live. You don't write your own music but your cover band plays everything live. That's the part I think you're not getting, that if you want to be holy about this it would make more sense if you were a jazz musician improvising live etc.

BTW this forum is made up primarily of bedroom producers of varying degrees of success, if that's not your cup of tea, or if you have some sort of superiority complex about that, that might be why you keep on getting into heated arguments here.