KVR Audio

Manc Chris · Post by **Manc Chris** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:20 pm

Guys, firstly, thanks for posting that chart. Interesting, and first time I have seen it. However, there have been a few (rather spicy) threads aound technicalities in music recently, and whilst I argued very much against a requirement for the knowledge, I also took on board a lot of the positive aspects for knowing more re scales/harmony etc. Therefore, please don't take this the wrong way:

This circle would seem to directly contradict any aspirations of creativity.

For instance, why would I need to know where to go for the next chord?

My way of working is to come up with a melody - something will pop into my head - then pick up a guitar/keyboard and find the root chord. The melody will dictate where I go next, NOT a conventional tool like this circle.

For example, I wrote a guitar based tune recently, that started on Emaj. The next chord - to compliment the melody - was actually C. So, a 2 chord verse riff of Emaj - Cmaj. IF ... I were to have been guiided by this circle, then I would have gone to A - - and presumably changed the melody to suit? Thereby being bounded by convention and avoiding gut instinct/raw creativity.

As I said, not looking for an argument, just a considered response to my concern. Unless .... this circle is to be used purely alongside a 'Bert Weedon for beginners' book????

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:21 pm

I've heard some of the music from some of the people on here who seem to know a great deal about the technicalities of music, but what they make is utter shite.

I don't think i need to add any more to that.

Edit: ...Although I ought to add this applies in the professional world too.

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:24 pm

any tips about how to get this to fromat correctly in word for a cut/paste/print?

Should I just print the webpage?
Eitherway, thank you.

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:26 pm

Makeshift Hammer wrote:I've heard some of the music from some of the people on here who seem to know a great deal about the technicalities of music, but what they make is utter shite.

what.. the ecstasy of 'working withing the confines of a set of impositions' doesn't translate?

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:33 pm

ouroboros wrote:any tips about how to get this to fromat correctly in word for a cut/paste/print?

Should I just print the webpage?
Eitherway, thank you.

if you print the webpage make sure to click the 'printable version' link underneath the last post on the page... that way you just have b+w

splattabreakz · Post by **splattabreakz** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:35 pm

xoxos wrote:
Makeshift Hammer wrote:I've heard some of the music from some of the people on here who seem to know a great deal about the technicalities of music, but what they make is utter shite.
what.. the ecstasy of 'working withing the confines of a set of impositions' doesn't translate?

1 not everything has to be extasy

and

2 sometimes guidelines = efficiency

edit: i rushed this without reading the whole thing.
but don't let me get in the way of your fight against being a human being.

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:36 pm

Whatever...... These debates arise here continuously and end up meaning f**k all in the long run (that's why they keep coming back time and again.)

I'm away to get some sleep.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:40 pm

Makeshift Hammer wrote: It's very melodic, pleasant on the ears, but so is silence. what chord is that in?

Last time I used it it's been some Eb7/#9. Didn't resolve to Abmaj7 properly though...

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:47 pm

splattabreakz wrote: but don't let me get in the way of your fight against being a human being.

if only there was such cognisance of imposition upon others in the fight for being a human being

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:17 pm

splattabreakz wrote: if you print the webpage make sure to click the 'printable version' link underneath the last post on the page... that way you just have b+w

Thanks!

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:43 pm

for myself, I'll use whatever is around. I know the circle of fifths well, and it is useful when stuck..

for instance, I've used the aforementioned E->C transition (going C->E is quite Beatles btw..), but then followed convention with an F->G, but then defyed it with A, but that allows a plagal cadence back to E. At a later point it moves to a B to make more tension that is broken by returning to the E.

Generally you'll find that you write stuff that works, and later find out why: either because it obeys some rules, or because it breaks them.

Taking the E->C thing, the C could be being used as a replacement for Am7, which could suggest an altered I-IV progression (movement by 5th), rather than the I-VI (movement within the same chord group). Who cares! Play what works!!

DSP

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:46 pm

Manc Chris wrote:Guys, firstly, thanks for posting that chart. Interesting, and first time I have seen it. However, there have been a few (rather spicy) threads aound technicalities in music recently, and whilst I argued very much against a requirement for the knowledge, I also took on board a lot of the positive aspects for knowing more re scales/harmony etc. Therefore, please don't take this the wrong way:

This circle would seem to directly contradict any aspirations of creativity.

For instance, why would I need to know where to go for the next chord?

My way of working is to come up with a melody - something will pop into my head - then pick up a guitar/keyboard and find the root chord. The melody will dictate where I go next, NOT a conventional tool like this circle.

For example, I wrote a guitar based tune recently, that started on Emaj. The next chord - to compliment the melody - was actually C. So, a 2 chord verse riff of Emaj - Cmaj. IF ... I were to have been guiided by this circle, then I would have gone to A - - and presumably changed the melody to suit? Thereby being bounded by convention and avoiding gut instinct/raw creativity.

As I said, not looking for an argument, just a considered response to my concern. Unless .... this circle is to be used purely alongside a 'Bert Weedon for beginners' book????

That doesnt mean that you arent playing in some key. The circle of 5ths is very much a beginners tool. Once you learn that, you build on that. And when you add different scales, Mixolydan, blues, etc. that is when you start adding different chords that modulate the key...

hitman8081 · Post by **hitman8081** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:56 pm

hey wheres my thank you im the one who revived this thread

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:58 pm

hitman8081 wrote:hey wheres my thank you im the one who revived this thread

Damn it, the technicality of this thread has killed my creativity!

Manc Chris · Post by **Manc Chris** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:00 pm

duncanparsons wrote:Taking the E->C thing, the C could be being used as a replacement for Am7, which could suggest an altered I-IV progression (movement by 5th), rather than the I-VI (movement within the same chord group). Who cares! Play what works!!

DSP

Actually, in the fuller picture,it WAS an Am7. I have the bass line playing E,A, against the E, C chords.

As you say though, play what works. THEN mebee take time to find out why it works

Quick chord progression guide