Phase-alignment student seeking Obi Wan Kanshowmi

[irpacynot]

Alright, so...after a few years of trying to learn how to produce my own music, I wanted to move on, finally, to learning how to effectively moderate phase. Did some research, was able to bring a mix together (though not particularly to my liking, with respect to space, panning and widening) with everything in the positive using Voxengo's Correlometer.

Then, I tried mastering it with two EQs set to sides and mid. That's when the Correlometer went up & down.

So, I know there's an association with bass frequencies, but I typically like my acoustic guitars panned left and right with their full body intact. I'm afraid if I high pass them completely on the sides, they'll sound tinny.

Ideas for where to start, and how to finish -- from individual tracks to the final mastering stage?

[jamcat]

Phase alignment is a myth

[irpacynot]

Phase alignment is a myth

[legendCNCD]

How about just shelfing them a bit, not filtering completely? I mean the acoustic guitars.

[Starbright]

Alright, so...after a few years of trying to learn how to produce my own music, I wanted to move on, finally, to learning how to effectively moderate phase. Did some research, was able to bring a mix together (though not particularly to my liking, with respect to space, panning and widening) with everything in the positive using Voxengo's Correlometer.

Then, I tried mastering it with two EQs set to sides and mid. That's when the Correlometer went up & down.

So, I know there's an association with bass frequencies, but I typically like my acoustic guitars panned left and right with their full body intact. I'm afraid if I high pass them completely on the sides, they'll sound tinny.

Ideas for where to start, and how to finish -- from individual tracks to the final mastering stage?

Ok here are my two cents about that: 90% of larger venues and soundsytems have most of their bass in a subwoofer and in mono. That's why you should never have to many instrumnets in your lower range.
Here's how you use a lowcut for that: you take the lowcut and start at the lowest point and slide it all the way up until you get a less muddy sound. alternatively you can also use some kind of bit crushing or distortion in an almost unhearable way to seperate your instruments a litlle.

When it comes to phase: you can use preFIX by VOS and use the polarity slider to check if it's really the phase.

Also when it comes to mid-side equing: use it more subtle. Side-EQ's really shine in the upper ranges (mids-highs). Test your mix for basic mono compabillity (does the main melody, bass and drums at least remain?) and adjust accordingly.

[irpacynot]

How about just shelfing them a bit, not filtering completely? I mean the acoustic guitars.

That's what I've been doing for the time being. Subtle removable.

Ok here are my two cents about that: 90% of larger venues and soundsytems have most of their bass in a subwoofer and in mono. That's why you should never have to many instrumnets in your lower range.
Here's how you use a lowcut for that: you take the lowcut and start at the lowest point and slide it all the way up until you get a less muddy sound. alternatively you can also use some kind of bit crushing or distortion in an almost unhearable way to seperate your instruments a litlle.

When it comes to phase: you can use preFIX by VOS and use the polarity slider to check if it's really the phase.

Also when it comes to mid-side equing: use it more subtle. Side-EQ's really shine in the upper ranges (mids-highs). Test your mix for basic mono compabillity (does the main melody, bass and drums at least remain?) and adjust accordingly.

Been tinkering a little with preFix. Haven't quite figured out all of the controls, but definitely on that.

Thanks for the input, folks.

[Zeisner]

What you're referring to has nothing to do with phase (which is something completely different) but stereo width (and ultimately mono compatibility).

I recommend to fix instrument-based issues as early in the chain as possible, not on the master. The master should be reserved for putting the icing on the cake of the entire song. So instead of trying to EQ your guitars on the master, go back to the inserts.

Correlation meters are not sufficient tools to detect mono compatibility because they can be fooled easily (and not only with deep frequencies). Your primary goal should therefore be to make your ears happy. Focus on what they tell you.

An easy way to determine the highest safe cutoff frequency when using highpass filters is to start with the lowest possible frequency and a high Q factor. Raise the cutoff frequency until you hear the resonance/ringing. Then bring the Q factor down to something smooth (like 0,3 for example). Now you can go a little further if you want. In case your EQ has an AB function, copy the setting to B and then raise the cutoff frequency a little more. Compare the result with A. If it sounds the same, use the higher cutoff frequency. If not, stick to the lower setting.

Something that gives you "better" correlation meter readings but also sounds much better on headphones: Use perceptual hard panning instead of technical hard panning. Explanation: On (stereo) speakers in a well treated room you won't hear a difference between infinite and (roughly) 18 dB ILD (Interaural level difference). So instead of just twisting pan pots completely to the left or right, slowly adjust them (starting from center) until the panned signal sounds as if it's coming from one speaker. You can also start with maximum settings and then go back right before the signal starts to move towards the center again.

After the audible part is done and your acoustic guitars sound in the mix as intended, then you can go further by cutting more inaudible content if you want (This is rather related to headroom than mono compatibility but headroom is also important anyway). In this case, correlation meters (and goniometers and spectrum analyzers and so on) are much more useful because they show if your stereo field does weird things (which triggers the detector of compressors and limiters when you don't want it to).