If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[BONES]

None of those continuously changed the timbre of instruments at least once per second.

You mean like in the way that a synthesiser can?

None of those continuously changed the voice of a singer (including the accent and even sex) at least once per second

You mean like in the way a vocalist can?

I think you're kind of missing the point. AI isn't reproducing something that exists in the way that a gramophone does, it's making something new. It can sound how you want it to sound. It's more comparable to a workstation synth than playback equipment.

None of them caused instruments to spontaneously wander around the stereo field at least once per second (That "live" track from Let Babylon Burn, especially the drums). None of them added an obnoxious volume boost to vocals...

Those sound like creative decisions to me. You may not like them but that doesn't necessarily make them wrong in any way. And, interestingly, none of these things you're complaining about have been issues with any of the material we've got from Tunee. In fact some of those kinds of things, specifically the way basslines change subtly through a song on some of them, are great features of those particular tracks.

Generative AI makes posing as a musician or programmer more convenient.

Possibly, if that's what you want to do but, honestly, who'd want people to think you were a musician? Urgh!
[quot]eThat's it. But if you want to actually make something you quickly realize how useless it is[/quote]
Perhaps that's more a reflection of how useless you are as an operator?

I suggest to listen to a Novakill track, that's Bones "band". One track is enough, if you heard one you heard them all. And then think about how meaningful it is to talk to Bones about expressing feelings and emotions via melodies, chord progressions, tension/release and so on.

Yeah, right, because there is no hint of anger or disgust or hatred in anything we do. You'd listen to any of our songs and think we were the happiest guys in town.

I spend over 2-3 weeks (maybe even longer) doing sound design, composition, mixing and mastering and then there's BONES dismissing my track because it has no lyrics

2-3 weeks!?! Do you have any idea how long it takes me to finish a song? It's more like 2-3 months. And the lyrics/vocals are much harder to get right than the music. If I was just doing instrumental music I could pump out a couple of albums a year without raising a sweat. And I didn't dismiss your "track" (even you can't call it a song) because it was instrumental, I was dismissing it because it was generic and had no emotional impact whatsoever.

Take "Rage" for example. There is no rage in it. At all. If I think about rage in music I think about Nine Inch Nail's "Burn" or Mick Gordon's "BFG Division". Rage is based on suffering and that has to be expressed in music too. But Novakill's "Rage" sounds like "I am so cool and edgy and dark and content in what I'm doing", as far away from actual rage as "Moonlight Shadow".

Yeah, great work, you picked the single, of course there's not much actual rage in it. If you bothered to listen to it properly, you'd realise it's not about my rage so there's no reason for it to be all that angry. Don't you think it would be a little bit obvious to tell people how to interpret the song in the title?

His bandmate put at best 30 minutes into it

He didn't put anything into it, that one's all mine. But, you know, it did alright in the charts - the full 8 weeks in the DAC and appearances in a couple of other charts, like this one, with Pearl Jam and New Model Army -

Screenshot 2026-06-27 093750.png

That's what we call "runs on the board".

Take Madeon's For You as an example.Even though it has no lyrics, I can understand the story that he is trying to tell us (through chords, tension/release, etc)

OK, then, what exactly is the story?

I have my own song Hemsworth as another example https://soundcloud.com/hipster-bales/hemsworth

As I said, soulless, generic pap which I had assumed was about your man-crush on the actor who plays Thor.

[VOODOO U]

2-3 weeks!?! Do you have any idea how long it takes me to finish a song? It's more like 2-3 months.

That is absolute insanity. I can't even fathom why anyone would want to spend months on a song. If the song doesn't cut it in 20 minutes, regardless of what's holding it up, it won't cut it in 2 hours let alone 2 months.
The longest it took me to complete a song was about 6 to 8 hours. Tops. From initial idea to completed output.
Love him or hate him, Elton John mentioned if a song takes longer than 20 to 30 minutes to write, it's trash. I agree with that. Same goes for recording the thing, he likes it done quickly and leave all the detailed bullshit to others.

And the lyrics/vocals are much harder to get right than the music.

I have found that this is the case when there's too much focus on what one wants to say rather then what works for the song.
I've worked with vocalists where I let them hear a song and they start writing lyrics. I wait until they're done, play the song over and over until they're satisfied with the lyrics. Then I ask to read them just so I can tear the paper up and throw it in the trash where it belongs.
Then I tell them to treat their voice like an instrument and gibberish over the song. After they get out of their pissed off mood and start singing gibberish over the music, they realize that they've come up with some cool hooks. Only then do I tell them to sing the lyrics they initially wrote in the gibberish mode they came up with. If they tell me they don't remember what they wrote then they had nothing to say in the first place so all is.good. And it only takes minutes with the latter approach.

[Grizzellda]

I suggest to listen to a Novakill track, that's Bones "band". One track is enough, if you heard one you heard them all. And then think about how meaningful it is to talk to Bones about expressing feelings and emotions via melodies, chord progressions, tension/release and so on. Even if he wasn't a troll it would be a waste of time.

I've listened to one of them. yeah that was a waste of time indeed.

I spend over 2-3 weeks (maybe even longer) doing sound design, composition, mixing and mastering and then there's BONES dismissing my track because it has no lyrics

I give a shout out to BONES because those guyz are making an effort, doing something.

And he is a prolific poster!!

[BONES]

That is absolute insanity. I can't even fathom why anyone would want to spend months on a song.

Because while it's new and fresh, you can't be objective about it. Once you've heard it so many times you're starting to get sick of it, you can. The more time I spend with a song, the better it gets. I just spent this week updating old songs to bring them up to the standard of the newer material for our live shows. Updating drums with newer/better plugins, changing some of the synth parts and generally tweaking everything. Nothing is ever as good as it can be, it's only ever good enough for now.

If the song doesn't cut it in 20 minutes, regardless of what's holding it up, it won't cut it in 2 hours let alone 2 months.

Tell that to Trevor Horn, who spent something like a year-and-a-half getting Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Relax into a usable state. If your songs aren't worth more than 20 minutes of effort, I suppose that's your call to make.

The longest it took me to complete a song was about 6 to 8 hours. Tops. From initial idea to completed output.

And then what did you do with it?

Love him or hate him, Elton John mentioned if a song takes longer than 20 to 30 minutes to write, it's trash. I agree with that. Same goes for recording the thing, he likes it done quickly and leave all the detailed bullshit to others.

"Others" in this context is still us in our context and I doubt the producers working on his mixes only spent 20 minutes finishing them.

I've worked with vocalists

The last thing I would ever give up or give over is vocals. If they mean nothing to you, that's your call but that's what it's all about for me. And it's not the lyrics that matter or need to mean anything, the vocal performance is the whole point of having a song in the first place as far as I'm concerned.

[Hipster Bales]

OK, then, what exactly is the story?

I’d assume about his adolescence (chords and melodies) and how supportive his fanbase are (hence the title “For You”)

[VOODOO U]

Because while it's new and fresh, you can't be objective about it. Once you've heard it so many times you're starting to get sick of it

How you manage to get anything done with that ridiculous approach is beyond me because the added parts are new and fresh, now what? Wait another few months to get sick of it and add more changes? There's got to be a break off point and if that's the case why not stick with what you initially started with and trust that it works?
Add to this, when you aim to be objective by getting sick of the song you run the risk of changing it into something else entirely.
Anyhow it's obvious you're insecure about your writing hence the "let's wait and be objective approach." Drink a f**king beer or ten.

The more time I spend with a song, the better it gets.

If you say so. Over production is a disease in music.

Nothing is ever as good as it can be, it's only ever good enough for now.

If you say so. Over production is a disease in music.

Tell that to Trevor Horn, who spent something like a year-and-a-half getting Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Relax into a usable state

That song is way overrated. It's not a bad song but it's not a hit either in my book. There are other hit songs that were recorded in much less time and are way better songs and no don't ask me for evidence and bullshit.

If your songs aren't worth more than 20 minutes of effort, I suppose that's your call to make.

My songs don't require more than 20 minutes of effort and yes that's my impeccable confident call to make. No Trevor Horn required.

And then what did you do with it?

What else but throw it into the music folder so I can listen to it over and over and over again?

Others" in this context is still us in our context

Well of course but I wasn't talking about the independent man. Of course now with A.I.....

and I doubt the producers working on his mixes only spent 20 minutes finishing them.

Hence why Elton left them to do all the over production bullshit.

The last thing I would ever give up or give over is vocals.

Well you should if the song calls for it. Why f**k up a song just because your ego thinks you're the only one that can give the vocal performance justice?

If they mean nothing to you, that's your call but that's what it's all about for me.

Not if you're not willing to hand over vocal duties to someone who can do it better than you. When a song calls for my vocal style and delivery, I do it. If I hear another vocal style I am unable to deliver then I go get that vocalist because that's what the song calls for.
If Bon Scott were still alive, I just can't hear him doing Thunderstruck or Back in Black. You get Brian Johnson to do it and tell Bon to hit the bar.

[Grizzellda]

Vocals are important...that is where it gets personal, like when you "just like a singer"... just because...no one can tell you different, you just like it, or this music...I know!!! Understood.