How To Determine The Pitch Of My Kick?
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- KVRist
- 122 posts since 7 Feb, 2016
How do I determine the exact pitch of my Kick if the low end is pretty even? There doesn't seem to be an obvious peak.
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- KVRAF
- 16829 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
The exact pitch is clearly visible: evenly spread between 55 and 250 Hz.
Why btw?
Why btw?
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 18460 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
Not all kicks have a tonal center. If you're trying to "tune" this, you should just adjust it by ear to the point where you think it sounds good.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
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- KVRAF
- 3790 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia
Commonly, you 'tune' to where the kit 'settles' - seeing most have a freq lift/drop at the start.
This is easy with an 808y thing cos it is all so simple and clear, and the hump tends to be very clear on the spectrum.
If there is a lot of noise or other inharmonic material, you have to do it by ear and feel.
I prefer this latter method as the decisions the operator makes define the piece as far more unique than when everything is done by meters and preset perfections. That is all these songz where all the elements were done by some external rulez are batship boring because there is no driving personality. I am listening to a best of Tom Petty and this is all personality writ large. That makes it important to work as when listening, I know I am engaging in the Tom Petty thing (as opposed to a grab bag of YooBoob Tut rulez that scream fear of being seen).
Be bold - Be you. Put it where it feels right today. Your next song, you will put it somewhere else. This is where style arrives.
p.s. I know that pics of sound are popular in places like this, but if you took that to Trevor Horn or Bob Clearmountain, I expect they would laugh and tell you something like: without the song being heard, it was just silliness
This is easy with an 808y thing cos it is all so simple and clear, and the hump tends to be very clear on the spectrum.
If there is a lot of noise or other inharmonic material, you have to do it by ear and feel.
I prefer this latter method as the decisions the operator makes define the piece as far more unique than when everything is done by meters and preset perfections. That is all these songz where all the elements were done by some external rulez are batship boring because there is no driving personality. I am listening to a best of Tom Petty and this is all personality writ large. That makes it important to work as when listening, I know I am engaging in the Tom Petty thing (as opposed to a grab bag of YooBoob Tut rulez that scream fear of being seen).
Be bold - Be you. Put it where it feels right today. Your next song, you will put it somewhere else. This is where style arrives.
p.s. I know that pics of sound are popular in places like this, but if you took that to Trevor Horn or Bob Clearmountain, I expect they would laugh and tell you something like: without the song being heard, it was just silliness
Benedict Roff-Marsh
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 122 posts since 7 Feb, 2016
I understand that most percussion don't have a definite pitch. But this kick in particular has a clearly audible low end, actually quite longer compared to what I usually use.
When I zoom in fully with span it gives me an A tuning.
I decided to upload it https://www.mediafire.com/file/twcn44k1 ... k.wav/file
Please if somebody with a good ear can tell whether the tuning corresponds to what span is suggesting.
When I zoom in fully with span it gives me an A tuning.
I decided to upload it https://www.mediafire.com/file/twcn44k1 ... k.wav/file
Please if somebody with a good ear can tell whether the tuning corresponds to what span is suggesting.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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- KVRAF
- 3790 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia
Dude, a 32-bit file! So first I had to open Audensity to make it usable...
This is the main takeaway you need to be getting here: all your obsession with techy tripe has you totally missing practicality. This is why it isn't coming together for you. Music is not about meters and tech trivia but flow. Flow is never made with meters and forcing things.
And again you let meters give you useless info that you instinctively feel is wrong, but you throw out your instinct and need approval - either from a more Pro-ful meter or someone you can pass your buck to. All so you can avoid being You.
Just using meters and my ear, I can see and hear that this is settling to C more than any other note. Being such a broad sweep, many other notes kinda 'pick up' but C is where it settles best.
The dumb meter (that tells you how klevva it iz) just averaged and got A which is actually not that comfortable. Fine if that is what your Song wants to build its Scene & Story but not even particularly useful as a comfortable answer (assuming you are writing a Luv Song).
How I did this test. I put the (fixed) sample in a sampler (NN-XT). That defaults to C3. Nice. I set a 4 on the floor then added a (Sine sample also defaulted to C3). It felt right straight up as well as sitting pretty well on my QRange analizer. I then changed the tuning of that Sine up and down to see how it felt. I found:
- The kik starts about C and falls to B over two octaves, which makes it less clear what it is overall assuming a set tone. Not that this is an issue as it is a nice kik as these things go.
- While settling on B could make that the call, it feels less sure there than C.
- With a travel in the C(ish) key that means that anything dominant in the Key of C immediately feels a bit stronger. So C, G, E, F, A are stronger
- But seeing it covers so much ground, so fast, it could be anything you want.
- Of course, if you buy into the low B as the root, which is a fair call, you can now justify anything in any Key/Scale of B
Sooo, we prove nothing other than this can be used anyhow so long as you make it work in your song. If your song fires and becomes the next "Blue Monday", musicologists will be dissecting why it works for decades to come.
My advice: Do exactly what I did and focus on the feel as you 'balance' one sound against the other - as I did. Do this without the meter so you feel it rather than see it as they use very different parts of the brain. It may take a while for you to start to feel anything, as so far you have trained to ignore how you feel over what something/someone else 'more important' tells you. Build that trust and courage or it will never grow on its own.
Then the meter becomes useful. I would suggest the one in the free ikjb QRange EQ as it is nice and clear and I can trust it - as I never can with things like Spazm that over-complicate to seem useful. The human brain works on averages, so averages show you what we feel far better than infinite detail.
Now here's the real kicker (hihi): if I wanted that Kik to kik kikkily in my Song in F, I would pop a narrowish Bell (in QRange of course) and boost where the kik and Root Note of the piece (F) 'come together'. I would do this by feel far more than by meters; but if I were to watch those meters, I would see that I have a peak at around 85 Hz. I may do this at just the Kik or Bus the drum kit + bass together as a Ry Bus (rhythm) and put a few dB in on that to make em 'as one'.
So as you see, that Kik sample can be any key you want. Once you know your Craft that is
This is the main takeaway you need to be getting here: all your obsession with techy tripe has you totally missing practicality. This is why it isn't coming together for you. Music is not about meters and tech trivia but flow. Flow is never made with meters and forcing things.
And again you let meters give you useless info that you instinctively feel is wrong, but you throw out your instinct and need approval - either from a more Pro-ful meter or someone you can pass your buck to. All so you can avoid being You.
Just using meters and my ear, I can see and hear that this is settling to C more than any other note. Being such a broad sweep, many other notes kinda 'pick up' but C is where it settles best.
The dumb meter (that tells you how klevva it iz) just averaged and got A which is actually not that comfortable. Fine if that is what your Song wants to build its Scene & Story but not even particularly useful as a comfortable answer (assuming you are writing a Luv Song).
How I did this test. I put the (fixed) sample in a sampler (NN-XT). That defaults to C3. Nice. I set a 4 on the floor then added a (Sine sample also defaulted to C3). It felt right straight up as well as sitting pretty well on my QRange analizer. I then changed the tuning of that Sine up and down to see how it felt. I found:
- The kik starts about C and falls to B over two octaves, which makes it less clear what it is overall assuming a set tone. Not that this is an issue as it is a nice kik as these things go.
- While settling on B could make that the call, it feels less sure there than C.
- With a travel in the C(ish) key that means that anything dominant in the Key of C immediately feels a bit stronger. So C, G, E, F, A are stronger
- But seeing it covers so much ground, so fast, it could be anything you want.
- Of course, if you buy into the low B as the root, which is a fair call, you can now justify anything in any Key/Scale of B
Sooo, we prove nothing other than this can be used anyhow so long as you make it work in your song. If your song fires and becomes the next "Blue Monday", musicologists will be dissecting why it works for decades to come.
My advice: Do exactly what I did and focus on the feel as you 'balance' one sound against the other - as I did. Do this without the meter so you feel it rather than see it as they use very different parts of the brain. It may take a while for you to start to feel anything, as so far you have trained to ignore how you feel over what something/someone else 'more important' tells you. Build that trust and courage or it will never grow on its own.
Then the meter becomes useful. I would suggest the one in the free ikjb QRange EQ as it is nice and clear and I can trust it - as I never can with things like Spazm that over-complicate to seem useful. The human brain works on averages, so averages show you what we feel far better than infinite detail.
Now here's the real kicker (hihi): if I wanted that Kik to kik kikkily in my Song in F, I would pop a narrowish Bell (in QRange of course) and boost where the kik and Root Note of the piece (F) 'come together'. I would do this by feel far more than by meters; but if I were to watch those meters, I would see that I have a peak at around 85 Hz. I may do this at just the Kik or Bus the drum kit + bass together as a Ry Bus (rhythm) and put a few dB in on that to make em 'as one'.
So as you see, that Kik sample can be any key you want. Once you know your Craft that is
Benedict Roff-Marsh
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 122 posts since 7 Feb, 2016
Thank you for the detailed response. You made a lot of assumptions there, and I get it as I can come off as insecure and noobish, but believe me, I'm not obsessed with technicalities at all. Actually, out of many projects I'm working on this was the only one I was particularly curious to analyze a little bit more as the Kick / Bass combo I achieved is, in my opinion, perfect. So I was just wondering whether the Kick tuning had something to do with it. The track in question is in B Phrygian btw. Again, I was just curious, it doesn't mean I'm obsessed with it or my music depends on it and I would swap a kick that makes me dance cause it's not in the scale of my track.
Also, yes, I have some insecurities about Music Theory as well and I ask humbly trying to understand more. But it seems to me that you already put me in a box.
And writing in English is a struggle as well for me, so that too doesn't help and may convey a certain image of me.
Anyway, thank you again for your reply as you've been really clear and helpful, as always.
Also, yes, I have some insecurities about Music Theory as well and I ask humbly trying to understand more. But it seems to me that you already put me in a box.
And writing in English is a struggle as well for me, so that too doesn't help and may convey a certain image of me.
Anyway, thank you again for your reply as you've been really clear and helpful, as always.