If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[VOODOO U]

Read the scripture.

I'd rather go to hell.

[enroe]

An A.I. prompt user is not a musician. Just someone who likes to lie to himself.

That brings us neatly back to the topic.

[Gamma-UT]

If a song takes a year or so until it's good enough then it's not good enough. It's a leech sucking on you with precious little tidbits and it needs to be burned alive. Get rid of it.

It's No Game, the song that bookends Scary Monsters, spent a decade or more in Bowie's notebooks. The melody began with one of his early songs and went through a bunch of revisions before it mutated into the two different versions on the album. The lyrics were also completely different: it was originally about suicide.

The idea that all end results come easily from an initial idea just doesn't match how much art really gets made. A lot of stuff comes from sketches that need to be reworked and refined to make them work. Sometimes it's the original idea that gets junked in the final product but if you're just burning everything that doesn't work instantly, you're just making things even more difficult for yourself. Not least because you're not learning how to differentiate from good and bad ideas. Or ideas that don't work for the particular song you're working on. There are plenty of other examples of ideas getting pulled from one song and dumped into a notebook to be used elsewhere because they just didn't work in the original.

This is why generative AI pretty much doesn't work: it doesn't support a way of working that lets you pull the bits apart. All you can do is write a different prompt and hope it keeps something you liked from the first prompt. The chances are the AI will do as you suggest and burn the original while copying elements from a different bunch of songs.

[GaryG]

An A.I. prompt user is not a musician. Just someone who likes to lie to himself.

That brings us neatly back to the topic.

let's spice things up a bit

648289746_1343343681153415_338620073333490347_n.jpg

[cron]

I think we're already seeing AI affect the plugin industry, but it's not because people are making music with AI, it's because they're making plugins with it. A giant flood of mostly $10 - $50 efforts. I saw one first time dev debut with a multipack of 60 plugins the other day. How many developers in history have ever released 60 plugins? Maybe Waves, a handful who've been around for decades?

The budget/midrange market is getting absolutely saturated with plugins made by people who likely don't even know what version control is let alone how to fix a bug without breaking existing projects. I have no idea how new developers in this segment are supposed to punch through in 2026 and beyond. The developers who were previously afforded the trajectory to become Klanghelms or Valhallas because simply writing a great plugin was enough - now such developers need to release great plugins and spend time building trust that their codebase isn't a one-off dead end they barely understand.

[D-Fusion]

I think we're already seeing AI affect the plugin industry, but it's not because people are making music with AI, it's because they're making plugins with it. A giant flood of mostly $10 - $50 efforts. I saw one first time dev debut with a multipack of 60 plugins the other day. How many developers in history have ever released 60 plugins? Maybe Waves, a handful who've been around for decades?

The budget/midrange market is getting absolutely saturated with plugins made by people who likely don't even know what version control is let alone how to fix a bug without breaking existing projects. I have no idea how new developers in this segment are supposed to punch through in 2026 and beyond. The developers who were previously afforded the trajectory to become Klanghelms or Valhallas because simply writing a great plugin was enough - now such developers need to release great plugins and spend time building trust that their codebase isn't a one-off dead end they barely understand.

I stay away from those plugins just like i did in the Synthedit days.
I find them to be short lived cash grabs so i am only interested in the free ones.

[enroe]

An A.I. prompt user is not a musician. Just someone who likes to lie to himself.

That brings us neatly back to the topic.

let's spice things up a bit

648289746_1343343681153415_338620073333490347_n.jpg

Well, that’s one of those phenomena: whether or not AI takes over music
production entirely — thereby rendering all plugins obsolete, for instance
— isn't a matter for a vote here on KVR. Instead, it’s going to happen — one
way or the other!

[ghettosynth]

I’d assume about his adolescence (chords and melodies) and how supportive his fanbase are (hence the title “For You”)

I got absolutely none of that. Not a jot. It was so cheesy I couldn't even be sure it wasn't musical irony. But maybe adolescence makes sense, too, because it definitely screamed of immaturity.

Yeah, I don't think that story is in there. You've got to come correct with the clarity if you want people to hear your emotional message. Like this, although, full disclosure, I stole the inspiration for the idea. I did spend 2-3 full minutes making the video though, so there's that.

[Hipster Bales]

I’d assume about his adolescence (chords and melodies) and how supportive his fanbase are (hence the title “For You”)

I got absolutely none of that. Not a jot. It was so cheesy I couldn't even be sure it wasn't musical irony. But maybe adolescence makes sense, too, because it definitely screamed of immaturity.

Yeah, I don't think that story is in there. You've got to come correct with the clarity if you want people to hear your emotional message. Like this, although, full disclosure, I stole the inspiration for the idea. I did spend 2-3 full minutes making the video though, so there's that.

XD ok that was funny. but no my song's not about Chris Hemsworth, there's a town in the UK called Hemsworth, where I live.

time to shut up

[VOODOO U]

It's No Game, the song that bookends Scary Monsters, spent a decade or more in Bowie's notebooks.

So? The first is alright the second boring. Now what? Am I supposed to kowtow just because it took a decade to complete??
A song taking up more precious time to complete does not equal better.

A lot of stuff comes from sketches that need to be reworked and refined to make them work

.
Fair enough but when that judgemental mind takes over where it resists an idea holding it hostage, that's key to let go because ingrained beliefs are difficult to override. Trust the subconscious will guide you in that case because it knows you more than you know yourself. It knows what you like. Your conscious self is constantly in judgement mode so no art ever gets done with it in the driver's seat. A good idea relaxes it like a drug. That good idea is what should be utilized and not messed with too much. It can be teased and polished but keep it.

Sometimes it's the original idea that gets junked in the final product but if you're just burning everything that doesn't work instantly, you're just making things even more difficult for yourself

.
I guess that's all perspective and attitude. Genius works instantly and I honor that. Otherwise judgement takes over and it's too rigid. Too demanding. Alcohol and drugs shuts it the f**k up. Otherwise you're going to be at war for months at a time. Now you tell me which is more difficult? I'd rather honor my initial idea and tell that judgemental mind to shut the f**k up with a full bottle of JD. Welcome to earth.

Not least because you're not learning how to differentiate from good and bad ideas.

Judgement. Bruce Lee said it best.... Don't think......FEEEEEL.

This is why generative AI pretty much doesn't work: it doesn't support a way of working that lets you pull the bits apart.

Not yet. It'll get there sooner than later.

[Zeisner]

but no my song's not about Chris Hemsworth, there's a town in the UK called Hemsworth, where I live.

To me, the track sounds like it's referring to a very particular place at a very particular time. Having a good time with special people (but not many people, just the right ones) with sprinkles of melancholy (Maybe a family member or friend moving away or it turned out the love interest doesn't feel the same).

[Zeisner]

The budget/midrange market is getting absolutely saturated with plugins made by people who likely don't even know what version control is let alone how to fix a bug without breaking existing projects.

Or who know anything about music theory, DSP, audio production, psychoacoustics etc. And this always results in something that is completely useless to work with, even if it's free.

[BONES]

Well thank God for the punk approach because yeah, everything can always be better but who gives a f**k.... it's finished.

When? When you're bored with it? That's putting yourself before the music. I could never do that.

If "good as it could possibly be" means spending months on a song then more power to you if that is working out good. I'd sincerely go mad if I had to spend months on a song.

Then it probably doesn't mean as much to you as it does to me, which is fair enough but I feel a responsibility to make it as good as it can possibly be.

I do realize that there are changes that could always be made, I'm guilty of that as well, but there's a fine line where "let it go" sits good enough to let a song breathe with sincerity as opposed to with scientific polish. That's as best I can describe it.

Sounds like a cop-out to me.

If a song takes a year or so until it's good enough then it's not good enough.

Then it will never make it onto an album and we'll never play it live and that's fine, as long as I'm sure it can't get any better. But usually we'll know early on if something's worth spending time on or not and sometimes I/we will put something aside that we know has potential but is not happening for us at the time. Maybe we'll come back to it later or maybe it eventually gets forgotten. And that's the other thing, it's not just me, I have responsibilities to the collaboration. Most of the tings I work on come from my bandmate, not me, so I have a responsibility to do my best for him, too. And to the label. I'm a grown-up, not an indulgent child, I understand responsibility and take it seriously.

It's a leech sucking on you with precious little tidbits and it needs to be burned alive.

Or maybe it's drawing out my creativity?

What you think is "good enough" after it latched onto you for a year or so is more than likely just a bad B side.

Well, audiences and charts would tend to disagree. That's the thing - ultimately I am putting it out there for the world to judge so I'm not going to sell it short or give up on something I know is worthwhile, just because I'm happy with it as is.

As long as it's sincere it works.

I've not found that to be the case. I can't listen to a badly produced song, no matter how much potential I think it might have. I think that's why I had little or not interest in music growing up, production values of the time weren't able to have an emotional impact that I could connect with. That's even true of a lot of Punk music -decent songs ruined by poor production.

Yep - you got me beat according to your standards of keeping things simple - less tracks and effects. Doesn't mean your output is better than mine.

Who'd know, I've never heard any of your music.

Yeah Im aware Relax was a hit. When I said not a hit in my book I meant not a hit according to my standards.

I'd say the same about any Celene Dion or Whitney Houston hit but that doesn't make it so. Relax is a great song that I have found very hard to cover because it's all in the production, there's not actually much of a "song" there at all. It's not something I could ever imagine someone pulling off with an acoustic guitar.

Great! So where is your too f**king easy classical piece for us all to share in wonderment?

Beethoven's 5th is hardly difficult - da-da-da-daaaaa!

As I said, if we were only doing music, not songs, we could pump out two albums a year and they could play them in lifts and lobbies throughout the free world. It's too f**king easy these days, any idiot can do it.

Any idiot can write music? Agreed. Any idiot can write music that gets played in lifts and lobbies because it's too f**king easy? Good luck.

Clearly you have no understanding of performance.

I'm all ears and willing to understand performance if you're willing to share.

Whatever happened to "If we expect people to buy our music, it needs to be as good as it can possibly be"??

You can't second-guess what other people will like, you can only know what you like and have confidence others will, too. If you're Justin Biber, you can be confident that millions will like it. If you're me, you have to be satisfied that dozens might.

Don't kid yourself, you write for other people hence why it takes you months to finish a song.

Is it really so hard to get your head around the concept that music might matter in and of itself?

I have one style that I can tolerate and listen to over and over again. It's me being loose, not giving a f**k. Everything else is boring nonsense that belongs to artists that embarrassingly take themselves too serious.

I find that everything has its place. I can do covers in a different style and be OK with it, because that's what the song needs. Again, it's about serving the song, not yourself or the audience.