Anyone else noticed the increase of Vibe coded plugins flooding the market?

[Munin]

Sometimes it's a bit depressing when some particularly carelessly made plugins show up - you can usually tell by the UI and color choices - ...

That's not really bound to AI imho. Good UI design needs quite a bit of a skillset and experience. And most programmers lack of this skillset and design it in the programmers way. It's a different way of thinking. AI can even help here.

That is true but you need to actively direct it towards a specific vision, otherwise they all converge on a lot of the same design ideas (which I guess were overrepresented in the training data set).

[Tiles]

True ^^

It's the old dilemma. To get a useful result you need to be able to ask the right question ...

[jamcat]

See, here’s the problem with all this “vibe-coding” panic: In most software companies bigger than one or two people, there is a Technical Lead or Lead Software Engineer. This person will design the software conceptually, develop algorithms, logic and data flow, and document features for the programmers to implement. A Lead Software Engineer may not even write a line of C++ code themselves, and might only “describe the software in plain language” to one or more code monkeys (programmers) to implement.

An algorithm, by the way, is a universal step-by-step description of a process. It is described in plain language. An algorithm is what gets turned into a C++ function or Java method by a coder.

So essentially, a vibe coder is a Lead Software Engineer, and the AI agent fills the role of the code monkey. AI coding tools are to the point where they are on par with a top-level programmer. And of course there have always been plenty of programmers writing code who are not top-level. Sorry, but that includes most indie developers.

So the issue with “vibe coders” really comes down to whether or not they actually have the background skills and discipline necessary to be a Lead Software Engineer and logically design a piece of software inside and out and then communicate it clearly and methodically, not whether or not they can write their own C++ code.

Side note: a Technical Lead or Lead Software Engineer will typically review the submitted code, though that’s probably less important when a human coder with human error isn’t involved. Plus, you could just as effectively direct the AI to review, refactor, and optimize the code for you.

More importantly, software needs rigorous testing. Not because of bad code so much as for unexpected, unforeseen, and unaddressed behavior in the design. First with unit testing, which AI can do, and later with hands on beta testing, which AI can’t, because AI doesn’t have hands. With AI assisted coding, more time should be spent testing than coding. That is one area of development that pure “vibe coders” without real-world software development experience may not fully grasp.

TLDR; the potential pitfalls of vibe coding isn’t going to be the code itself. That will be solid. It’s the soundness of the design and the thoroughness of the testing where things may fall apart. But these are the typical failings of inexperienced developers, not AI coding agents, and these pitfalls are neither exclusive to vibe coding nor an inevitable consequence of it.

Not sure if this is a subtle work of comedy or merely an example of how wrong someone can be

If I’m so wrong, then take apart my post point by point instead of just offering a lazy, flip dismissal. But of course you would only expose your own ignorance in the process, which is why you can’t and won’t.

[El°HYM]

It's the old dilemma. To get a useful result you need to be able to ask the right question ...

Bada-Bing Bada-Boom.

[jamcat]

Sometimes it's a bit depressing when some particularly carelessly made plugins show up - you can usually tell by the UI and color choices - ...

That's not really bound to AI imho. Good UI design needs quite a bit of a skillset and experience. And most programmers lack of this skillset and design it in the programmers way. It's a different way of thinking. AI can even help here.

That is true but you need to actively direct it towards a specific vision, otherwise they all converge on a lot of the same design ideas (which I guess were overrepresented in the training data set).

I think it’s more because this type of UI can be done by AI purely through code and doesn’t require a graphic designer. They are probably using JUCE which has a lot of built-in graphics functionality which the AI is leveraging. Using the default vector-based knobs and sliders and text boxes, for example, will lead to a particular look which we recognize as generic at this point.

On top of that, it is devoid of any personalized style, adding to the genericness of it. The AI style is literally the complete absence of style.

Most plugin companies have graphics people on staff or particular designers they outsource to. These are professional designers who have refined skills and a strong personalized aesthetic that you immediately recognize as the company’s brand. Vibe coders rarely have graphics skills, and AI coding agents aren’t going to fill that gap for them.

[Touch The Universe]

It's very tedious to get AI to code it. C++ or html is limited in amazing jaw dropping panels. I have not found a way yet, so I am ding a blend of getting ai to generate an awesome background pane, making sprites knobs and the results are getting much better. If anyone has advice on how to work with juce and ai gui, I'd love to hear it.

[Vortifex]

If I’m so wrong, then take apart my post point by point instead of just offering a lazy, flip dismissal. But of course you would only expose your own ignorance in the process, which is why you can’t and won’t.

You are correct, it seems I was in fact talking out of my arse.

[jamcat]

It's very tedious to get AI to code it. C++ or html is limited in amazing jaw dropping panels. I have not found a way yet, so I am ding a blend of getting ai to generate an awesome background pane, making sprites knobs and the results are getting much better. If anyone has advice on how to work with juce and ai gui, I'd love to hear it.

I saw your recent GUI work and it looks pretty good to me. That said, AI knows how to work with all C++ libraries, including JUCE. You can ask your AI how to work with JUCE and you'll get better advice than you'll get from anyone here. And you'll get a plan, too. And implementation.

JUCE is a great development framework, and it's free to use up until you make $20k in income from development. Once you hit that milestone, it's just a one-time license fee of $800. JUCE will make your life a lot easier as a plugin developer, whether you are using AI or not.

[tidalwaves]

Well, AI has been widely deployed for close to four years now, and the world has not collapsed or seen broad mass unemployment. That makes me somewhat optimistic.

That said, there are clearly areas under pressure. Especially in programming and graphics department where work is highly standardised. The impact so far looks more like uneven restructuring and shifting demand than a general collapse of employment. I'm curious how this turns out in let's say ten years.

Not due to AI, but the audio software industry doesn’t seem to be doing too well. I can only imagine a flood of sloppy clone plugins could be the nail in the coffin of companies that were already struggling to sell their plugins at 90% off…

[rockheyday]

The problem with vibe coding is "support" and "optimisation". If the person does not have much experience in software development cycles and relying on AI, he or she would eventually fail when the users need support. Particularly, in edge cases.

Plus, these floating plugins have one specific bad side: High CPU loads.

They can create very nice GUI, but they would not be optimised. Imagine as a user, loading some number of this type plugins into the channel, and notice the CPU load!

[Tiles]

Well, AI has been widely deployed for close to four years now, and the world has not collapsed or seen broad mass unemployment. That makes me somewhat optimistic.

That said, there are clearly areas under pressure. Especially in programming and graphics department where work is highly standardised. The impact so far looks more like uneven restructuring and shifting demand than a general collapse of employment. I'm curious how this turns out in let's say ten years.

Not due to AI, but the audio software industry doesn’t seem to be doing too well. I can only imagine a flood of sloppy clone plugins could be the nail in the coffin of companies that were already struggling to sell their plugins at 90% off…

Imho the market was already oversaturated when AI emerged. It is speeding things up a bit. But at the same time th emarket is not longer 100% DAW, but x% DAW and x% AI like Suno or Tunee. So in the sum it might even be that the music market has grown bigger since now people "makes" music who would never have done it with a DAW.

[Tiles]

The problem with vibe coding is "support" and "optimisation". If the person does not have much experience in software development cycles and relying on AI, he or she would eventually fail when the users need support. Particularly, in edge cases.

Plus, these floating plugins have one specific bad side: High CPU loads.

They can create very nice GUI, but they would not be optimised. Imagine as a user, loading some number of this type plugins into the channel, and notice the CPU load!

That's imho true with every aspirant developer. You simply need experience or you will do a nose dive quick. And high GPU usage is nothing AI specific. Just have a look at Izotope or Waves.

[D-Fusion]